The discourse out there is pretty bad after Starfield

[Swanlee]

@strawman

When people point out that your attempt at fact checking went horribly wrong, you should apologize, not tell them to ‘fucking chill’. Clearing cache in a browser is not particularly difficult. You’re a gaslighter of the worst kind.

On the ignore list you go, congrats you’re the first.

Yep aint got time for more gas lighting shit especially here.

[McMasters (Marty McMasters)]

@strawman

No, NES games were running at 60fps already. The hardware is no excuse (or shouldn;t be). Additionally, you had entire swaths of press claiming 30fps is not acceptable on at least two occasions this year. And yet Zelda frequently dropping to 15fps did not bother them at all.

And the PS5 BG3 score is apparently a carry over from the PC since there aren’t any critic scores listed.

No, the PS5 version is listed with 32 reviews, the PC version has 104 reviews. Why are you being intentionally obtuse?

Kinda feels like it’s this guy’s M.O.

[nursegamer20]

Are we still denying that there is bias? I mean Microsoft themselves saying it and seeing IGN tweeting about Elder Scrolls 6 being exclusive every single week(a game that is not even close to being released) is not enough? Plus there are plenty of other examples that I haven’t talked about. We should not hold the gaming media as this fair, righteous entities, they are not. Just like the legacy news media(CNN, Fox etc), they have their own leanings/biases and it should not be shocking that they are propping one/or two companies more than the other like the legacy media market their favorite politician’s over other candidates. It’s not something new.

[Zappy5]

Let’s not forget gamespot tweeting out 4 times ‘we gave it a 7/10’ for Starfield. They also multi tweeted (4 times) we gave it a 4/10 for redfall.

They don’t do this for other games. Not multi tweets.

Just coincidence? Or……

[EPC]

Too much coffee.

[KageMaru]

@Swanlee

Actually that line is blurring everyday. But as others have said we are pretty tired of being Gas lighted for pointing out the obvious. Sony does not get the same scrutiny as Xbox does from gamers and the Media. Their are two different standards that each is held to and we would simply like that to go away and each platform is held to the same standards.

Pretty simple and not really asking to much.

I should be able to disagree without being attacked. I even asked for examples that were referenced. All I got were idiots on Steam, a single journalist that seems to have an axe to grind against Bethesda (so who’s to say if that’s Xbox related or not), and a tweet about Spider-Man that isn’t relevant to what we saw about Halo. Yet I’m being told I’m being dishonest, gas lighting, and I have some kind of MO like I’m the one with an agenda.

[BigHappa]

There is a media bias, but it is an echo chamber. It is a minority of video game fans and I don’t think in the future they will have as much say. Most people that I know in person that play video games don’t pay any attention to them. Now we can have our own communities like XboxEra and not pay attention to the negativity. That’s what I do, I’ve never been bothered by any media takes.

[Kals_Els]

@KageMaru

I should be able to disagree without being attacked. I even asked for examples that were referenced. All I got were idiots on Steam, a single journalist that seems to have an axe to grind against Bethesda (so who’s to say if that’s Xbox related or not), and a tweet about Spider-Man that isn’t relevant to what we saw about Halo. Yet I’m being told I’m being dishonest, gas lighting, and I have some kind of MO like I’m the one with an agenda.

I don’t believe you’re being dishonest or anything anyone is lobbying at you. But I do think you’re more willing to give media outlets the benefit of the doubt, while more people here(myself included) have already written them off as having no value because they do this sort of thing for engagement and the money that comes from it.

[peter42O]

@KageMaru

I see it the opposite way. I think the amount of hype, build up, and boasting leading up to the game built up expectations to a degree the team was never going to match with their first attempt at a new IP. I don’t think it had anything to do with it being an Xbox game and instead it not living up to all the hype built up for it. They sold it as a space exploration game where the space exploration was one of the weaker parts. No one forced Xbox to proclaim Starfield was “one of the most important RPGs ever made” or it was the biggest game of the year. They should et the reviewers and gamers express those quotes, not try to beat people over the head with such lofty claims, only further building up unrealistic expectations.

It’s usually better to set expectations lower just to come out swinging, catching people off guard beating expectations. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like Xbox has learned this yet.

I agree with you in regards to Starfield getting over hyped while the exploration is “weak” compared to previous Bethesda Game Studios games and while it’s not a perfect 10/10 game, it’s definitely far above the bunch of 6’s and 7’s it scored from various outlets.

I look at Spider Man 2 and SMB Wonder and im like, yeah, it’s the Sony and Nintendo advantage because very rarely do ever see their games score under an 8/10 overall. It’s rare.

I do agree that it’s better to set expectations lower and exceed them as opposed to doing the opposite but I can say that despite not being a BGS fan whatsoever and never truly playing any of their games, Starfield is a superb game. Does it have issues? Absolutely but man, the positives in the game and what it does simply far outweighs the negatives in my opinion.

@KageMaru

There’s no way anyone can give any guarantee on what Starfield would score if it were on another platform, absolutely no way. Is there a bias against Xbox by some in the media? Sure, everyone has a bias to some extent. However there are also others have a bias towards Xbox. I just can’t fall in line of thinking where the few that have an agenda speaks for an entire industry, regardless if that agenda is for or against the platform I prefer. I still remember the plethora of positive Xbox articles in 2021,including multiple ones of people writing specifically to say they were switching from PS to Xbox, just for MS to squander the good will with the bone dry 2022 year while dropping the ball on their handling of Halo Infinite.

As an Xbox fan, with an Xbox bias, I don’t think these games deserved a 90+ MC average. So I don’t see them missing that mark as some sort of proof of some underlining agenda that’s infested the entire industry. It’s Xbox’s responsibility to change their image, mindshare, and output. They are working on that but that change isn’t going to happen overnight or even in a few years.

I agree with the last part that it’s Microsoft responsibility to change their image and mind share, however, because I believe the vast majority of the gaming media is biased against Microsoft and Xbox (seriously, can you find a single positive article from any gaming media site since they announced the ABK acquisition in January 2022?) that they’ll never be able to achieve this simply because they’re looked at as the outcast or why are they in gaming? I have said it to my friend so many times - I don’t believe that regardless of Microsoft does in regards to Xbox, they will never ever win gaming media over nor will they ever win over those who aren’t in gaming media but 100% against Xbox.

@KageMaru

I see nothing good by giving preferential treatment to those with a clear Xbox bias and silencing everyone else that doesn’t cheerlead for the platform I like. If anything, that would only hurt mindshare, build animosity towards the brand, and really drive home the narrative that Xbox doesn’t have what it takes to compete.

I’d rather Xbox actually market the games around the core strengths of each title, marketing them in a more realistic way that better represents the final product, and at the end of the day, do less talking while letting the games speak for themselves. They just don’t do this and it continues to negatively impact them in the end. Think about it, what was the best received Xbox game this year? The one they shadow dropped and the one MS didn’t have the opportunity to insert their foot in their mouth.

The reason why I would hand pick a select few is simple - it’s because I wouldn’t trust gaming media to truly be objective and fair towards Xbox and the more Microsoft acquires, the worse I believe they will be towards Xbox.

I disagree in regards to it hurting mind share, etc. simply because the vast majority of consumers don’t give two shits about review scores (look at COD as pretty damn good example) and when you have Game Pass, why would anyone truly need a review when in all honesty, anyone can just play and judge the game(s) themselves?

I agree with the last part in terms of marketing and whatnot but in regards to Hi Fi Rush rush being the highest rated game, I think it’s also in part because there were no previews or anything so gaming media wasn’t able to setup a narrative against the game months in advance like they’ve done with nearly every other Xbox title.

@howlingmosquito

It “won’t count” for whatever reason imagined anyway. Part of me wants Xbox to buy Sega and Take 2 just to see the discourse about Persona 6 and GTA6 and how many points they’ll be docked due to change of ownership.

And the other half of me doesnt care because nothing Sony ever makes ever again will ever get out of game passes shadow.

I agree completely. Even better than Take Two or Sega would be Nintendo because every one of the exclusives scores high even when let’s be honest, they don’t deserve it. This would be the real test. Imagine Microsoft acquiring Nintendo and then, Super Mario Odyssey 2 releases and it’s like a low 80’s score with a bunch of 6’s and 7’s. lol

@Good_Old_Collingwood

If Starfield is left off it only perpetuates the thought that Xbox can’t make GOTY games.

Or the thought that due to gaming media loving to be negative against Xbox and screwing the platform over that it’s not that they can’t develop GOTY games but that gaming media would never allow it.

@Swanlee

But for some reason people say the 90s from Horizon and flight sim dont count and bemoan why cant Xbox put out games with 90+ MC scores.

Litteraly just brushing aside games that score 90 + on MC to push the narrative that Xbox has no 90+ MC scores.

Agree completely.

@Joe_Sinister1

You’re missing the point, kinda like Spider Man is missing features that Xbox games were docked points for. Also on the same token aren’t many shitting on the hard work of devs of games like Forza and Starfield . Are the feelings of Insomniac game devs more important. Also how come there are no outlier reviews like their are with xbox games, since people have different opinions and all.

How come there were no Spider Man hit pieces from Metro, IGN or PC gamer in the months leading up to it’s release for that matter , different people have different tastes after all. Surely someone is not a fan of Spidey games.

100% this. You never see a negative article or anything towards Sony and PlayStation. Even when they fire people or shut down a studio or raise prices several times, it’s nothing but silence and even if there are articles and whatnot, it lasts, maybe a few hours at most? It’s a fucking joke.

Regarding Spider Man 2, I will be playing it come Friday but after watching a few reviews (Skill Up, ACG and Jor Raptor), I already have a few negatives against the game because im like, that’s what they did? Or it’s the exact same shit? WTF?

Will know for sure come Friday but when I look at Spider Man 2 and the majority of Sony’s first party games, they’re basically Ubisoft open world check list games which last time I checked, gaming media would be very critical of Ubisoft outside of a few games if that but yet with Sony, it’s like unless the game really has a shit ton of issues (Days Gone for example), they all get a pass and any negatives/issues/complaints in the game are overlooked and given a free pass.

@Kals_Els

I don’t believe you’re being dishonest or anything anyone is lobbying at you. But I do think you’re more willing to give media outlets the benefit of the doubt, while more people here(myself included) have already written them off as having no value because they do this sort of thing for engagement and the money that comes from it.

Reading through the ton of posts, I agree. I don’t believe that @KageMaru has an MO or is being dishonest whatsoever but I do believe that he wants to give the gaming media the benefit of the doubt but the issue is that the vast majority (if not all of them) of the gaming media lost that privilege months if not years ago simply by seeing negative article and whatnot repeatedly towards Microsoft and Xbox.

When you see a site (I think it was Metro) give Hi Fi Rush an 8/10 if I remember correctly and said that they can’t give it any higher due to Microsoft’s empty 2022, im like WTF? What the hell does an empty 2022 have to do with Hi Fi Rush??? SMH.

Sony hasn’t released a first party game since GOWR in November 2022 so almost a year later, they finally release Spider Man 2 yet for a year, I didn’t see anyone in gaming media call Sony out for a non-existent 11 months and I sure as hell didn’t see any site say they scored Spider Man 2 lower because the last 11 months was empty.

[WhiteDevilMan]

@peter42O GREAT post. Well considered and considerate while offering examples to your views.

[Resist]

Explain to me how Bethesda or MS over hyped the game.

No, one tweet from Pete Hines isn’t representative of the entire marketing for the game.

[peter42O]

@WhiteDevilMan

GREAT post. Well considered and considerate while offering examples to your views.

Thank you. Appreciate that.

[DeconstruKt]

@Xplainin

The mods did do something about it on GAF. They banned me for defending Xbox lol.

I got banned for saying “Phil Spencer is Based, us Xbox gamers eating well in the future” in the ABK thread and got permanently banned…

I see so much worse get posted by the other side even today and they don’t get a single ban or warning, the moderators are pure Sony fanboys.

Screw those places.

[Joe_Sinister1 (Joe_Sinister)]

Speaking of which certain forums are really not happy about the news of Starfield being a success sales wise.

[DeconstruKt]

They depend so much on Metacritic, but by that logic Spiderman 2 is only 0.7 better rated than Starfield, 0.3 if you include the PC version.

Literally negligible.

[Sparda3g]

@DeconstruKt

They depend so much on Metacritic, but by that logic Spiderman 2 is only 0.7 better rated than Starfield, 0.3 if you include the PC version.

Literally negligible.

One guy is legit losing it when it lost a point and threaten to go banana if it drop below 90. It’s not that serious…

[Anecronomicon]

I think conversations about review aggregates are 99% tainted by console war bias, especially when it comes to using metacritic as a quality standard.

Anyone who’s been playing video games for long enough (or has played plenty of games in their life) will have invariably enjoyed a title which scored lower than 80, or conversely hated a title which scored 90+. It’s extremely unlikely there’s a single person out there who could argue in good faith that they only ever enjoy or play games with a high metacritic average. It’s impossible.

I’ve been playing video games since the 1990’s & the absolutely only time I pay attention to the metacritic average when I’m interested in a game is if it scores very low, which in this industry is 60 & below. It usually means there’s something mechanically broken. But the reverse can also be true, i.e. when I see a game with 90+, I invariably ask myself ‘why’ because quite often the difference between a game which gets an 80 versus a game which gets 90 is often simply a matter of releasing at the right time with the right mood & open arms critical reception which paints a positive picture & psychologically prepares buyers to ‘enjoy’ their investment (time & money).

I might not make any friends with this because it’s best incapsulated by Red Dead Redemption 2, IMO, i.e. the hype was huge & the willingness to overlook its clunky controls & linear on rails “follow yellow marker” mission design (straight from the PS2 era of GTA’s) contributed to a totally ridiculous metacritic of 97 on the PS4.

I had a very bad time with that game. Is it a ‘bad game’? No, not exactly, but there’s an awful lot it gets wrong & its metacritic score doesn’t reflect what’s really in the package. That’s just one small example.

As for Spiderman, I don’t even like Spiderman or the MCU, so I won’t even go there.

[SpiderLink]

We shouldn’t be taking out frustration towards other people on each other. This is a good community and I’m very disappointed at how KageMaru is being treated. You can disagree with someone without calling them a liar.

[nursegamer20]

Speaking of Metacritic, I looked at games that hit 90 or above this year and it led me to question, why did HiFi Rush not hit the 90’s? I thought these critics want something fresh, unique, and innovating with great performance and this was it. I don’t get how they gave a 90 or above score on games like SpiderMan 2(still a great game), which is a sequel that is only a slight improved version of the first one, while games that are trying something new doesn’t get the same treatment. BG3 is the only one they got right, but it’s also because Larian always had a hardcore following ever since the Divinity series. I guess I’m just ranting lol cause I love the game and definitely deserved recognition.

[Mort]

@Anecronomicon

I might not make any friends with this because it’s best incapsulated by Red Dead Redemption 2, IMO, i.e. the hype was huge & the willingness to overlook its clunky controls & linear on rails “follow yellow marker” mission design (straight from the PS2 era of GTA’s) contributed to a totally ridiculous metacritic of 97 on the PS4.

I had a very bad time with that game. Is it a ‘bad game’? No, not exactly, but there’s an awful lot it gets wrong & its metacritic score doesn’t reflect what’s really in the package. That’s just one small example.

Blocked.