Xbox Wire: Xbox Series X|S are the only next gen consoles to have full RDNA2

[Space_nut]

Wow just listened to Jason and he says the Xbox Series X/S are the only consoles with full hardware for the RDNA 2.0 tech. Full hardware implemented on XSX/S no other consoles

[Colbert]

@TavishHill

You say it doesn’t matter if a feature is labeled as base or advanced, but it DOES matter if the context is to use that label to discern if the feature is present and available for use. My point is that we can learn about what is present or missing if we are careful with the labeled feature sets. By focusing too much on the Xbox end of things here, you miss out on learning more info regarding what RDNA2 feature Rosario was referring to.

Yes, we can be sloppy and just say ‘XSX has all this stuff, yay!’, but being more careful lets the discussion yield more fruit than that!

All the features mentioned by AMD and MS are available for usage. I really have no idea what your point is. What do we missing in the discussion on the thread’s subject here?

(“Xbox Series X|S are the only next gen consoles to have full RDNA2 support [that was presented at the RX 6000 announcement]”)

Again:

The messaging by MS is catered to us gamers and developers. They know they have a unique value preposition here.

Towards Developers: If you add those features in your games you can be sure it is supported at least by PC & Xbox consoles & cloud., Means less effort and cost to produce the game for multiple platform.

Towards to us gamers: Look, if you buy a game you can be sure developers optimize for those features because it is supported by several device types like PCs, consoles & cloud.

RDNA2 is an architecture that has all sorts of technology and features in it. And XSX, XSS, PS5 and RX 6000 are the instances of that architecture in silicon. You do not compare the theoretical architecture, you compare the physical instances. And the physical instances are defined by their specs and features.

(Btw Features are based on standards, and those standards have a naming convention. If a GPU doesn’t use the same naming convention you can assume it is something proprietary.)

Or is it that you say the RX 6000 have have base and advanced features the XSX/XSS doesn’t have?

[TavishHill]

@Colbert

…is supported at least by PC & Xbox consoles & cloud., Means less effort and cost to produce the game for multiple platform. Towards to us gamers: Look, if you buy a game you can be sure developers optimize for those features because it is supported by several device types like PCs, consoles & cloud. RDNA2 is an architecture that has all sorts of technology and features in it. And XSX, XSS, PS5 and RX 6000 are the instances of that architecture in silicon. You do not compare the theoretical architecture, you compare the physical instances. And the physical instances are defined by their specs and features. (Btw Features are based on standards, and those standards have a naming convention. If a GPU doesn’t use the same naming convention you can assume it is something proprietary.)

I dunno how many more ways to explain what my point is.

The premise of the thread is that XSX/XSS has full RDNA2 feature set in physical hardware and PS5 does not. So the point I’m making relates to why this distinction is being made. Of the hardware features shown off at the event, not all are RDNA2. Some are API features shown work fine on Nvidia GPU’s, for instance.

It makes sense to group all the features that work on Xbox together if your interest is to establish what Xbox can do. But the other angle on the thread’s premise is about what PS5 can’t. To that end, if we focus on what ‘full RDNA2’ actually requires, which I contend is: RT, perf/watt and VRS as per what AMD has said all year long, we can learn about what PS5 lacks. That is useful info in a thread premised on the implication that PS5 is not as fully featured as Xbox.

We know PS5 lacks 1 feature of full RDNA2 because Rosario Lenoardi told us so. We also know Sony has previously confirmed RT and perf/watt improvements as PS5 GPU features. So when focusing on RDNA2 base features, we can use process of elimination to corroborate the notion that VRS is missing in PS5. This is useful information about something that physically seems to not be present!

If DX12U standards were required for classifying something as RDNA2, AMD would never talk up PS5 as being RDNA2-based. So it isn’t about the naming convention of the API. It’s about the hardware that API can expose and give devs access to. Any AMD GPU that has perf/watt, RT and VRS hardware would be classified as full RDNA2 by AMD. If an AMD GPU is not classified this way, it implies something is missing.

I’ve no idea what you mean when you talk say “you do not compare the theoretical architecture, you compare the physical instances”…huh? Nobody is talking about theoretical anything. I’m trying to discern what is or is not physically present as hardware in the PS5 GPU.

[Colbert]

@TavishHill

…e the notion that VRS is missing in PS5. This is useful information about something that physically seems to not be present! If DX12U standards were required for classifying something as RDNA2, AMD would never talk up PS5 as being RDNA2-based. So it isn’t about the naming convention of the API. It’s about the hardware that API can expose and give devs access to. Any AMD GPU that has perf/watt, RT and VRS hardware would be classified as full RDNA2 by AMD. If an AMD GPU is not classified this way, it implies something is missing. I’ve no idea what you mean when you talk say “you do not compare the theoretical architecture, you compare the physical instances”…huh? Nobody is talking about theoretical anything. I’m trying to discern what is or is not physically present as hardware in the PS5 GPU.

I do not think in that categories. For me it is not about what the PS5 doesn’t have. Maybe it looked like that, but I just wanted to list the features where the console GPUs are different. The main point of MS message is as I said not to put shade on Sony but to emphasis on the advantages to have the same feature set like the latest AMD GPUs based on their latest architecture.

And with that I think we can stop here (I already got a warning that we should talk in personal messages )

[TavishHill]

@Colbert

I do not think in that categories. For me it is not about what the PS5 doesn’t have. Maybe it looked like that, but I just wanted to list the features where the console GPUs are different. The main point of MS message is as I said not to put shade on Sony but to emphasis on the advantages to have the same feature set.

And with that I think we can stop here (I already got a warning that we should talk in personal messages )

Oh, I’d disagree. I think MS was absolutely throwing shade at Sony here and I think they know for certain what is or is not in PS5’s GPU and they are finding ways to point that out. I’d highlight their comment in their article about being willing to wait for GPU features to be ready before finalizing their architecture. I think they are trying to tell us something without being able to come right out and say it. Just like they did the exact same thing when they revealed the reliable, static clock speeds to DF back in March (a clear jab at PS5’s variable clocks, despite the filming taking place before Cerny’s talk).

It’s ok to agree to disagree or chat in PM’s!

[Zappy5]

Just listened to the Xbox Two podcast where Jez talks about this. He basically says he’s talked to a few devs etc to try and understand what this amounts to but his takeaway is that it was a really bad idea for Xbox to try and use this as some sort of win. That Xbox don’t know what Sony’s engine can or can’t do and until Xbox proves that it can make better looking games than Sony they should keep quiet in this stuff as it just leaves them open to ridicule should it not pan out.

That’s a paraphrase but I think sums up his view. Now he’s probably got a point here…is it not better to keep quiet and let the games you make do the talking? As he says technical specs don’t matter people will judge on how realistic or beautiful your graphics look and Xbox have some way to go here. Also wonder whether any devs have told him that Xbox have made too big a deal out of this?

[Biggzy (Hassan)]

@TavishHill

… Oh, I’d disagree. I think MS was absolutely throwing shade at Sony here and I think they know for certain what is or is not in PS5’s GPU and they are finding ways to point that out. I’d highlight their comment in their article about being willing to wait for GPU features to be ready before finalizing their architecture. I think they are trying to tell us something without being able to come right out and say it. Just like they did the exact same thing when they revealed the reliable, static clock speeds to DF back in March (a clear jab at PS5’s variable clocks, despite the filming taking place before Cerny’s talk). It’s ok to agree to disagree or chat in PM’s!

No, it was definitely Microsoft throwing some shade Sony’s direction. They have been banging on about VRS etc for months now and, as you said, they knew about the variable clocks as well before Cerny’s presentation. We do have to remember also that Mojang probably has PS5 dev kits, so it’s not like it would be difficult for Microsoft to have access to the PS5’s dev documents.

[TavishHill]

@Zappy5

…ically says he’s talked to a few devs etc to try and understand what this amounts to but his takeaway is that it was a really bad idea for Xbox to try and use this as some sort of win. That Xbox don’t know what Sony’s engine can or can’t do and until Xbox proves that it can make better looking games than Sony they should keep quiet in this stuff as it just leaves them open to ridicule should it not pan out. That’s a paraphrase but I think sums up his view. Now he’s probably got a point here…is it not better to keep quiet and let the games you make do the talking? As he says technical specs don’t matter people will judge on how realistic or beautiful your graphics look and Xbox have some way to go here. Also wonder whether any devs have told him that Xbox have made too big a deal out of this?

MS knows exactly what PS5’s architecture is. They have had dev kits for a long time now, lol. Frankly, almost no devs are even using the key features implicated here yet. RT is not used in a ton of games yet, and VRS is used in nearly none. The other stuff they highlighted like ML is not in anything coming out soon. So I would not even trust most devs to speak intelligently on the topic without having direct experience and I’d wager for 2021 that will just be XGS teams.

It is fair to argue that they need to show and not just tell though.

[Xplainin]

@TavishHill

I bet Sony worked with AMD on clockspeeds and maybe stuff with caches perhaps. And MS worked with them on RT and VRS, separate from their collab on DX12U feature implementation.

I would love to get an idea about how AMD work with both Sony and MS at the same time. I guess one team works with Sony on one floor, and another works with MS on another? Or is there one AMD team that works with both Sony and MS? How much info do MS and Sony get about what each other is doing? Maybe if Albert is on here he could answer.

[TavishHill]

@Xplainin

I would love to get an idea about how AMD work with both Sony and MS at the same time. I guess one team works with Sony on one floor, and another works with MS on another? Or is there one AMD team that works with both Sony and MS? How much info do MS and Sony get about what each other is doing? Maybe if Albert is on here he could answer.

I’m not sure how that works, just know it is highly compartmentalized. The reason architectures end up being super similar generally is just due to the fact that AMD’s roadmap is what gets offered to MS/Sony and they tweak those offerings and add their own priorities on top and work with AMD to develop those.

For MS, that will be guided by the DX team. But at the same time, the DX team is guided by trends among how games run on various platforms and indirectly guided by dev needs, which Sony also has lots of access to. So they end up with similar challenges to solve. MS has a big advantage there since they can directly get eyes on how games actually run, which is not always the same thing as how devs think they run. Downside is for MS’s end things are a lot less mysterious.

[DrDeckard]

@Zappy5

…ically says he’s talked to a few devs etc to try and understand what this amounts to but his takeaway is that it was a really bad idea for Xbox to try and use this as some sort of win. That Xbox don’t know what Sony’s engine can or can’t do and until Xbox proves that it can make better looking games than Sony they should keep quiet in this stuff as it just leaves them open to ridicule should it not pan out. That’s a paraphrase but I think sums up his view. Now he’s probably got a point here…is it not better to keep quiet and let the games you make do the talking? As he says technical specs don’t matter people will judge on how realistic or beautiful your graphics look and Xbox have some way to go here. Also wonder whether any devs have told him that Xbox have made too big a deal out of this?

I agree with this paraphrasing. Let the games do the talking now.

The watchdogs legion footage today looked amazing. Just give us more of that. Looking forward to how thattitles stacks up across both consoles.

[No-1HoloLens-Fan]

@Zappy5

…ically says he’s talked to a few devs etc to try and understand what this amounts to but his takeaway is that it was a really bad idea for Xbox to try and use this as some sort of win. That Xbox don’t know what Sony’s engine can or can’t do and until Xbox proves that it can make better looking games than Sony they should keep quiet in this stuff as it just leaves them open to ridicule should it not pan out. That’s a paraphrase but I think sums up his view. Now he’s probably got a point here…is it not better to keep quiet and let the games you make do the talking? As he says technical specs don’t matter people will judge on how realistic or beautiful your graphics look and Xbox have some way to go here. Also wonder whether any devs have told him that Xbox have made too big a deal out of this?

It’s funny that it’s coming from Jez. I expected more from him.

I say this because microsoft is not try to put shade on PS5 here but trying to convey that development between PC and Xbox will be similar.

It’s people’s fault that they always think about console wars. Jason in his interview never mentioned competition while talking about the RDNA2. His emphasis was on similarity with PC development.

[LavishAssassin]

@Zappy5

…ically says he’s talked to a few devs etc to try and understand what this amounts to but his takeaway is that it was a really bad idea for Xbox to try and use this as some sort of win. That Xbox don’t know what Sony’s engine can or can’t do and until Xbox proves that it can make better looking games than Sony they should keep quiet in this stuff as it just leaves them open to ridicule should it not pan out. That’s a paraphrase but I think sums up his view. Now he’s probably got a point here…is it not better to keep quiet and let the games you make do the talking? As he says technical specs don’t matter people will judge on how realistic or beautiful your graphics look and Xbox have some way to go here. Also wonder whether any devs have told him that Xbox have made too big a deal out of this?

He did not say he talked to devs, just that Xbox should wait before declaring this a WIN. He was going on about the RT not being DX12, but we corrected later on. I agree the games should do the talking, but he’s not a tech person and tends to say things that make little sense. So grain of salt until someone w/ said knowledge says otherwise.

[Dabanton]

Tbh if MS doesnt talk themselves up no one else will. And we know if this was the other way the praise would be deafening.

After last gen where MS spent the first years of the Xbox Ones life putting out self inflicted fires and trying to spin a weaker system.

They deserve a bit of bragging rights. But yes, let’s hope they let the games do most of the talking.

[Zappy5]

@LavishAssassin

He did not say he talked to devs, just that Xbox should wait before declaring this a WIN. He was going on about the RT not being DX12, but we corrected later on. I agree the games should do the talking, but he’s not a tech person and tends to say things that make little sense. So grain of salt until someone w/ said knowledge says otherwise.

He did say he had talked to some devs.

[TechnicPuppet]

I don’t know anything about tech but it’s interesting to me listening to MS that they usually let us know where they win.

Started with the weird way they concentrated on the fact their clock speeds were set in stone just before we found out Sonys weren’t. Stuff like that been happening for last few months.

So them talking about this says to me PS5 doesn’t have this stuff. I’ve seen people say they have RDNA3 stuff instead and that’s why. I mean come on, they loudly talk about anything that have, they like. This is why most of the next gen chat from them and the media in turn has been about IO and a new controller fad. Last gen in was 1080p and a new controller fad.

I’ll say this as well. MS has doubled down on his quiet they are. I don’t think PS5 is silent and may even be loud in comparison to XSX. Though not in comparison to their current ones which are a disgrace.

[LavishAssassin]

@Zappy5

He did say he had talked to some devs.

I legit watched it live and I honestly didn’t hear him say that. If you don’t mind, can you provide the playback?

He was just ranting, there are too many people saying the opposite to believe any of them.

[Zappy5]

@LavishAssassin

I legit watched it live and I honestly didn’t hear him say that. If you don’t mind, can you provide the playback?

He was just ranting, there are too many people saying the opposite to believe any of them.

Xbox Series X Unboxing & Full RDNA 2 | Halo Infinite | Cyberpunk 2077 Delay - The Xbox Two #151

No idea how you do the clever time linked thing but it’s at 1:02:40 ish

[LavishAssassin]

@Zappy5

No idea how you do the clever time linked thing but it’s at 1:02:40 ish

Ok, so he just asked for clarification. However, everything else he said after was pure speculation and some of it downright wrong.

My issue with Jez isthat he goes off on rants, yet does not seem to know what he is talking about. Like RTing, Xbox has hardware and the PS5 has software and this is due to missing RDNA 2 feautres. You can even find quotes and post from DF commenting on PS5 missing features and how important they are for next-gen gaming.

I am sorry he is upset about a company marketing their product.

[Daniel]

Isn’t most of the stuff MS is touted HW based not API which is software? Not very cluey on this tech stuff but if one is HW based you cant just have a software based solution that is better right? And surely software based would take resources from the cpu, gpu and ram as there isn’t dedicated hardware to do the tasks.

Again I have no idea if anything I just said is correct but it is my thoughts.