Turn 10 and Forza Motorsport. What happened?

[daifuco (Jose Pagan)]

This is the racing game that I am enjoying more since GT1.

I don’t understand the problem with the graphics. But the handling is so much better than in previous Forza.

I am liking it so much that I have made myself a DIY rig to play it properly.

[Bloodforge]

My biggest complaint is the car models and has been for awhile, I just wish they took the love and attention to detail Polyphony takes. I don’t care if we get less cars because of it.

@Doncabesa

…

I don’t think people want realism, I think they want beautiful baked in lighting with a focus on art direction. Real life is ugly all the time compared to what we see in movies/tv.

Oh 100% it’s not about realism, just look at all the bad graphics talk with EA WRC(the game looks fantastic btw). Real life is kinda boring to look at most of the time and most race tracks are not visual masterpieces, lol.

[rtansey]

@Doncabesa

…

I don’t think people want realism, I think they want beautiful baked in lighting with a focus on art direction. Real life is ugly all the time compared to what we see in movies/tv.

I think when doing comparisons between FM and GT is t hat GT has a heavy emphasis on the specular highlights coming from the sun with the car material. Forza isn’t as aggressive with that. Some may like that look.

Such as this from a replace taken what appears to be similar times of day (afternoon/noon with overhead sunlight)

[nrXic]

@rtansey

… I think when doing comparisons between FM and GT is t hat GT has a heavy emphasis on the specular highlights coming from the sun with the car material. Forza isn’t as aggressive with that. Some may like that look. Such as this from a replace taken what appears to be similar times of day (afternoon/noon with overhead sunlight) 1444×600 158 KB

Yeah some of the older Forzas were overdoing it and then they toned it down for this one to make it a lot more realistic which I appreciate, though I do think they toned it down a little too much. But yeah GT over does it at this point.

The more I play Forza the more I think the visuals are underrated.

I have to repeat this, the fact that it does full-time of day along with full dynamic weather is a technical marvel.

I do agree that some materials can look better especially on the cars. I think the paint jobs that you can apply is really restrictive and results in completely unrealistic looking cars. I do agree that they need to redo some of the older models of vehicles.

But other than that the game looks stellar. I truly look forward to all the new tracks being released in the future because of the fidelity they’ll be represented at but also because of the full day/night as well as dynamic weather being applied to them. It’s stuff that I wished that 3D racers has had since I was a kid and we’re finally seeing it on console.

I do have a list of visual complaints but I’m beginning to think that so much of this discussion probably should be in the other thread. You know I don’t think there’s any real problem apart from T10 misrepresenting the game through its trailers, with some of those details missing and things like ray tracing toned down. Again the idea that they spent 6 years making this is completely incorrect. There’s nothing extraordinary about the flaws of this game It is pretty much in line with most modern games. That’s not to excuse it but rather state that it probably doesn’t need its own thread.

[CallMeCraig]

I do appreciate that Turn10 has dialed down the specular hightlights. In earlier Forza Motorsport games it was sometimes really bad. Just open FM2 and drive on Sebring, its almost a whiteout.

[Swanlee]

@CallMeCraig

I do appreciate that Turn10 has dialed down the specular hightlights. In earlier Forza Motorsport games it was sometimes really bad. Just open FM2 and drive on Sebring, its almost a whiteout.

They seemed to go for a realistic look all around which was the right move for a sim racer

[shadowplayer]

@Xplainin

…em. We have heard all generation about how we havent seen what these consoles can produce, as the games are built on last generation engines, yet here we are with the same issues. Now, im sure some people dont care, and will give Xbox a pass no matter what happens, but to me I was looking to this game to showcase the XSXs abilites. After playing it I am left with a number of different questions. Did I over rate Turn 10? Are they no longer the same studio they used to be? Is the Forzatech 2.0 engine not taking advantage of the XSXs features that we accused all other developers of being too lazy to implement? Is the XSX just not that powerful? Are the DX12U extensions not that impressive as we were told they were? Is this game still unfinished? Thats my vent, not sure what others have thought.

Big signature on everything, I wouldn’t have described the state of the game better myself, and it’s exactly as you wrote, the game is simply not finished, everything is not arranged as it should be, or as you say, the xbox can’t pull it all off as it was presented to us, but then again, why does the pc have to fail because of everything, which brings me back to my words and your description that everything is not arranged in the Forza engine 2.0, whether there will be a patch for everything in the future, that remains to be seen, but what is the state of the game now , rejects me from further association with the same, unfortunately!

[shadowplayer]

@Zappy5

It’s the best looking racing game on any console by a long distance. The inconsistency is mainly down to older car models being used and the fact that in real life some lighting situations look worse than others. That’s just how it is. The main thing that I think is contentious is they have gone for realism, not hyper realism. And that’s a departure for Forza and also different to GT. Their whole rationale with TAA for example is to make the game look more real and less hyper real. But in my view a lot of gamers don’t want realistic looking games they want hyper real super clean looking games. But that’s not what real racing looks like.

I don’t really know, maybe it’s like that, the driving model is great, while the graphics in this game stink for miles, I’m not a fan, and there’s too much aliasing, I can’t come to terms with the fact that it looks worse on a high-end PC and spins worse than on the xbox series x, that doesn’t make sense or maybe there are Turn 10 directors, I don’t know.

[Privat33r]

@shadowplayer

I don’t really know, maybe it’s like that, the driving model is great, while the graphics in this game stink for miles, I’m not a fan, and there’s too much aliasing, I can’t come to terms with the fact that it looks worse on a high-end PC and spins worse than on the xbox series x, that doesn’t make sense or maybe there are Turn 10 directors, I don’t know.

My only issue with the graphics are the ones on Series s. They are awful and fm7 looks miles better on Series s. On X the graphics are pretty good with great HDR. I don’t think there is a better sim/simcade game on console that has better graphics. Are they as good as they [showed at first? Unfortunately no but they get the job done They need to fix the bugs though. I already had 3 times git the save bug after upgrading my car and lost my last race progress. It’s unacceptable that such bug exists.

[Swanlee]

They do need to fix bugs but the graphics and driving model/handling on this game are top notch on the Series X and a great foundation for the future.

[rtansey]

@CallMeCraig

I do appreciate that Turn10 has dialed down the specular hightlights. In earlier Forza Motorsport games it was sometimes really bad. Just open FM2 and drive on Sebring, its almost a whiteout.

@Swanlee

They seemed to go for a realistic look all around which was the right move for a sim racer

Reality often has quite bright specular highlights, and specular highlights can really tie a piece together to make our brains perceive the depth and lighting more accurately.

I do appreciate not being absolutely blinded by them in-game. Though FM still does have visibility issues sometimes when the lens flare or road pavement reflecting the sun covers up the road/driving line lol.

I think there’s a happy medium somewhere.

Gran Turismo 7:

Forza Horizon 5:

Forza Motorsport 2022 Gameplay Reveal:

Forza Motorsport (tried to find a spot driving into the sun like the others from a video)

This isn’t to say Forza Motorsport is completely absent of specular highlights, but I do think they either have been toned down significantly, or there’s been some issue with it. And I think this is what is contributing significantly to the “downgrade” or “bad materials” type controversy with FM, especially when compared to past entries and even the 2022 gameplay reveal.

edit: Taken from SuperGT:

These highlights are possible in FM of course, they just seem to be less common in off-angle from the sun conditions. Idk.

[Xplainin]

@shadowplayer

Big signature on everything, I wouldn’t have described the state of the game better myself, and it’s exactly as you wrote, the game is simply not finished, everything is not arranged as it should be, or as you say, the xbox can’t pull it all off as it was presented to us, but then again, why does the pc have to fail because of everything, which brings me back to my words and your description that everything is not arranged in the Forza engine 2.0, whether there will be a patch for everything in the future, that remains to be seen, but what is the state of the game now , rejects me from further association with the same, unfortunately!

It would be good to get answers. I was worried when Forza got delayed this year, as it was meant to be in the first half of 2023.

On top of that, this is what Turn 10 said about the cars.

"Turn 10 has said this roster will feature the most modern cars the series has seen to date.

What’s more, these cars will look and sound more realistic than ever. Turn 10 has used a spectrophotometer, which “captures multiple data points of light behavior on a surface”, to make the paint on Forza Motorsport’s cars look more realistic. Cars will also accumulate dirt more realistically and damage will be more authentic – with both affecting each vehicle uniquely."

Without a doubt the paint reflects light really poorly, and alot of cars have just been given a matte vinyl wrap look, which is devoid of any reflections at all.

Im of the opinion that they have had issues with their lighting and as a result they just put the matte finish on half the cars to cover it up. I played on the McLaren F1 car last night, and it looks like a 360 level car. I will start to take screenshots of them.

[Doncabesa (Jesse Norris)]

@Xplainin

…e. What’s more, these cars will look and sound more realistic than ever. Turn 10 has used a spectrophotometer, which “captures multiple data points of light behavior on a surface”, to make the paint on Forza Motorsport’s cars look more realistic. Cars will also accumulate dirt more realistically and damage will be more authentic – with both affecting each vehicle uniquely." Without a doubt the paint reflects light really poorly, and alot of cars have just been given a matte vinyl wrap look, which is devoid of any reflections at all. Im of the opinion that they have had issues with their lighting and as a result they just put the matte finish on half the cars to cover it up. I played on the McLaren F1 car last night, and it looks like a 360 level car. I will start to take screenshots of them.

Honestly, I think you and this thread have run their course. We get it at this point and do not move this discussion to the OT.