I only see the content update cycle to be nothing but a net positive for Halo Infinite. Very much like MCC, Infinite can manage an impressive swath of critical updates for the game without havnig to abide to hard to the GAAS structure of persistent, seaasonal content.
This, however, would be catatrophic for the brand if Halo were to downsize itself. Campaign, Multiplayer, Theater and Forge should be the expectation of future Halo titles. The development – or rather, undevelopment – of these featuresets as of late is never a fault of the developer having an overbearing workload. It’s always an issue with poor management.
i get there is a marketedly louder population of Single Player only enthusiasts on both this site, purple site etc. But ‘campaign-focused’ Halos are not what the brand defined itself on by the time Halo 2 released and expecting anything less than a fully featured suite is, to me, an admission of defeat.
I agree, but most people don’t know it (because they didn’t play MCC and/or are intentionally obtuse) and I’ve seen many saying it’s the first sign of dropping support. Which doesn’t make any sense, because HI is the only actively supported Halo game these days (MCC active support ended last year). I guess the content added will speak for itself.
I also agree about the need of a complete feature set Halo in the future, a campaign only game would diminish the brand, even minor spin-offs (ODST and Wars) had a mp suite of some form.
They don’t have COD or GTA level budget, but I doubt a Halo game cost less than a couple hundred millions when it’s all said and done, so the problem is not budget nor development time (5-6 years are enough to make a complete aaa game), it’s management.
I don’t think this is true - though yes - there were management and development issues at 343 that have hindered development but I can’t think of another game expected to deliver on the featuresets that Halo is. People seem to look at the end state of each game and then expect the next game to launch with the same content AND more, and it’s not healthy for fans or developers.
At launch Halo Infinite was expected to have a full open world campaign playable in online co-op and local splitscreen, a full multiplayer suite with a comprehensive range of maps and game modes (all replayable through theatre, with a full progression system and wide range of cosmetics) and a full level editing suite integrated into the game and on top of that people still considered the game incomplete until it had a PVE experience integrated into the multiplayer as well. I’m probably missing a few things too. That’s a LOT for any game, but it’s especially a lot for a game that isn’t even that big relative to mega-hits like Call of Duty or Fortnite - the likes of which can actively afford to have thousand+ teams working to build and support these titles.
While I agree I think multiplayer is an important component for Halo - what I mean when I say a more campaign focused experience is just that I could see a future where they just drop all of the feature creep and make a normal scale of game. A solid campaign and a multiplayer mode that they support for 6-12 months and then move on. Fans will complain and forever call it incomplete for just being the same size as other games, but it’d probably make for a lot more consistency for the series.
Although yes, as others say I would personally vastly prefer if they just continued to support Infinite as a multiplayer suite while making seperate campaign games. I worry that simply isn’t in the cards for Infinite though.
Expectations were too high for sure, but HI launch state was subpar even for lesser franchises: cut campaign (some say 30%, other more than half), very light mp content and no coop in any form (and online coop is there in many shooters, splitscreen was a great dream, but it’s dead nowadays). You can launch forge after imo, but the other three pillars should be in place.
The point is how all of these features and modes affected development- because they spent the entire development cycle of the game working and putting development resources towards having this wide range of features even if some were eventual cancelled or delayed till after launch. As much as I’d be sad to see some of these features dropped, I’d be very curious to see what 343 could do if they just made a normal scale of game and I wouldn’t really be surprised if that is what happens.
What’s normal? I mean, Halo track record speaks for itself and imo you can get away cutting out expected modes only if you are very clear from the first announcement (and that’s a big if).
Anyway, speaking about levels of “normal”, I’d say the lack of actual load checkpoints in campaign at launch or basic features like loading chapters that were less than “normal” even in a AA game, also online coop is something very common in shooters since a decade (Borderlands, Far Cry, etc). Personally I don’t think it’s unfair to expect a sp/mp suite at launch from a flagship franchise (we are not talking about a new IP and/or a new studio), it’s not like they don’t have the time and/or the budget, what lacked was management imo (very very clear if you look at recurring issues from game to game and the axe rolling heads after HI launch, if MS was cool with it there wouldn’t have been so many drastic changes).
Now the pressure for Halo is at the lowest in its history, because Xbox organisation grew and acquired equal and even bigger IPs, so they can make a new game without the expecation to carry the brand almost alone.
Again, you’re missing my point - it’s about the fact that they were developing a huge game even if it did not launch with all of that functionality, and the unhealthy fan expectations that drive that. Yes, there was mismanagement but resources were still stretched chasing a massive scale of game. Halo’s track record is that each game seems to be expected to deliver on more and more than the prior entries all the while the development resources required to even do each of these things grows and grows.
This is a rather simplistic way to look at development process but you mention the likes of Far Cry and Borderlands and that kind of encapsulates my point - these were focused AAA games that were not remotely expected to offer the same range of features. Borderlands offered splitscreen and 4 player co-op but wasn’t an open world game and had no additional multiplayer or other game modes, Far Cry 6 was open world but only offered 2 player co-op, didn’t have split screen or any other game modes.
By comparison Halo was expected to be an open world game with 4 player co-op, splitscreen, have a full multiplayer suite GaaS mode, PVE game modes and probably the most advanced player made content tool ever made by developers and MORE- and do this across multiple hardware generations and most of this was all in development at the same time and they got raked over the coals for not having it ready for launch.
I can’t think of any other game expected to do all that Halo does. Maybe this would be fine if it was some megahit flagship like it was in the original Xbox era - but it’s not. It’s doesn’t have the near infinite () resources bigger games have now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the next Halo is kept under a tighter leash after Infinite dissapointed financially.
@Cairnst I get your points, while I don’t agree with everything, anyway my last thought on this matter is that removing features and shipping a smaller game is the best way to diminish the IP even further, but that’s only my opinion obviously.
I certainly don’t think people will be happy that they remove features, I will be sad to see these things go just like everyone else - I still play Infinite and love the expansive game it has grown to be. These things are in many ways what makes Halo special. I just think that if they ship a smaller game (which might be their only choice right now) they might be in a better position to make something truly excellent and without the stumbles they’ve had on prior games.
Bungie was always building on top of their previous game, so 95% of the features of the previous game were intact in their next title. Everything you liked about the previous title would be in the new one albeit in a new sandbox.
Various modes have different flow and flavor to them, I mostly bounce between ranked arena and husky raid, for some people other modes have the priority. If the new game doesn’t have your favorite modes, you are naturally going to miss them.
343 needs to communicate ahead of time what’s coming and what’s not and lay out a road map post launch… Communication isn’t their strongest suite, they just bungled the announcement of the end of seasonality in Infinite LOL.
One thing we all need to keep in mind on either side of this debate is the fact that Infinite made things harder for itself when it became an open world title. From a software development standpoint something had to give and things like Forge and the multiplayer had to be sacrificed.
GTA Online was added years after the release of the game.
Games like COD have a full linear campaign and multiplayer with nothing like Forge.
Halo became incomparable in regards to feature set so it is pretty unfair to expect all of this on top of an Open World game.
If the next Halo features a linear campaign then a fully featured (in terms of Halo games, not in terms of AAA games because no other game has the same feature set) launch title seems more realistic. But still lengthens the dev cycle compared to every other game out there.
Personally I love the idea of a Halo live service title fulfilling that multiplayer itch. Infinite right now is pretty great. As long as they keep the maps and modes coming I am happy. Having loved Halo 3 and its gameplay sandbox, I would have loved maps released for its multiplayer year after year. We’re getting that now with Infinite.
So for me having a new campaign which focuses on stunning visuals, an engrossing story and varied set-pieces where Chief’s heroism is showcased, I’m okay with that being a separate product especially if it came out sooner and more often.
I’d like to see a poll that asks people how they felt because we are clearly have different opinions on this but I wonder what the overall fan base thinks.
Such a poll would need to include certain realities including the fact that a single player only title means it would come out sooner and its sequels would come out more often. But getting a complete package with Forge and so on would mean almost doubling the development time.
343, Certain Affinity, Skybox Labs, and Sperasoft all have extensive experience with the Slip space engine, and would presumably be involved with the next Halo game. Just saying, if they keep Slipspace they already have the tools and features expected of a Halo game…
Absolutely, if they keep using the engine they have there would be options for these sorts of things. But that’s if they keep using the engine, as it has been reported they are might switch to Unreal moving forward. I don’t imagine this would affect the campaign so much but stuff like forge? Who knows.
Multiplayer wasn’t sacrificed because of the open world campaign. It just shipped before 343 sorted out all the issues on the backend. Forge came far more robust than ever, just one year later.
I don’t disagree that the campaign and multiplayer releases should be decoupled going forward, though I’d prefer if they used the same tech - you could utilize campaign AI in multiplayer PVE modes like you currently can in Infinite.
Regardless, I’m positive 343 makes the best choice for the next game (be it UE5 or sticking with Slipspace), they have all the expertise and knowledge while we’re speculating, LOL.
I’m excited for what’s been announced for this year of Infinite:
new netcode
match composer
community maps existing playlists
new playlists around community maps
enhanced Forge functionality and more pallettes
I still hope we have more ‘dev’ maps coming as well as some additions to the sandbox, earlier leaks had 3 weapons, 5 vehicles and 2 more pieces of equipment.
That’s what I was getting at, considering how incomplete MP was at launch and many months after. Compared to previous Halos there were a paltry amount of maps and modes. The tech debt on the engine and so on.
MP relies so much on the sandbox that the single player defines (movement, physics, weapons, and equipment) so I credit the ambitious single player in affecting the dev of MP. I could be wrong.
I was just thinking of Forza Motorsport recently and it is also feature incomplete and lacking in content. Which is odd because the previous ones were feature-packed with a ton of content and released every 2-3 years consistently. It makes me think about modern game development and whether it is really worth creating a whole new engine. I suppose that’s a topic for a different thread though.
I agree, 343 has learned a lot from this and it’s not only tech stuff but also in regards to decision making and vision. Xbox Game Studios probably learned a lot as well and have the studio on a tighter leash as well. People keep saying that infinite cost $500 million to make and I just don’t buy that but let’s say it was 1/5th that: $100 million. That seems like a massive investment that really didn’t pan out and I’m sure they don’t want to do that again.
If they do all the things that you listed then I am more than happy with Infinite.
Imo, since the MP team is separate from the SP team, the failure of the MP taking so long to catch up is on the MP team. The one thing I will say harned both teams and forge, was giving the leads for Halo equal say that allowed them to move contractors around so much.
I would like them to make Halo Infinite 2, a game that build directly on top of Infinite. Import most of the maps directly into Infinite 2, ditch Xbox One support, increase budget for Forge stuff, give forgers even more functionality. Use all the spartans and customization as is (returning players would import all their unlocks and purchases from Infinite, new players would have a wealth of options on day 1) and add customizable Elites and customizable non-human weapons. Expand and update the weapon and vehicle sandbox. Add Flood AI to PvE. Basically make a dream version of Infinite and relaunch it as a new game.
A new game on UE5 with only a fraction of the features I’m used to would be rough.
Here’s the leaked roadmap that I mentioned, I ticked off all the things that have already made their way into the game. I imagine some things existed as a vague idea, still would love to see as much as possible making it into the game.
None of it was ever announced tho, it’s just a leaked internal roadmap and as we know plans change all the time, particularly at 343. Conversely, a ton of stuff has been added that is not on that roadmap.
) resources bigger games have now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the next Halo is kept under a tighter leash after Infinite dissapointed financially.
