Hard to say but with UE4 for example you couldn’t make open world games. Digita foundry explained some of this. It was why the Gotham game suffered. There are similar issues with UE5, I think someone in the thread was trying to explain. Perhaps UE5 is very capable but might require some serious optimizing which wonder if 343 can achieve. If they are struggling with their own engine will they be skilled enogh to optimize UE5 for Halo? The Coalition I could see but 343 is another can of worms.
1 Like
On the flipside - had any of the Unreal Engine FPS developers made a great feeling FPS before switching to Unreal? So is it a matter of the engine itself, or simply a curious historical development that none of the truly skilled FPS expert studios have embraced the engine for one reason or another?
4 new maps and 2 new modes, 1 new weapon and equipment. If they manage to get 3 months long seasons with similarly additions, the game will become content rich soon enough 
I think this is a bad example because it is one of scale, software typically has to be designed a certain way to scale. It does not need to be designed for feel.
It’s like going to a website saying 'Ah, another site running on AWS. I wish more were on Azure, all of these AWS sites are the same"
Sometimes things that come out of a toolset will be familiar, but that’s because the teams are using what they are given with no modification. Like using a wizard instead of getting in there and making sonething your own.
Open world vs linear is very different to FPS vs TPS
One is a camera perspective, the other is an entirely different game
I mean sure, there’s definitely going to be differences, you can’t just put the TPS design as is in an FPS and it will just work great, like imagine trying to play something like Gears in FP and all that wall bouncing lol
I just don’t believe that if an engine is capable of creating excellent TPS’s, there’s no major reason it can’t do the same for an FPS too
Anyways the big question I have is if Halo will go back to being linier with the engine change? Or will 343 try for more open world Halo?
Edit: Also sorry for this edit but the thought had me looking to see if it was ever modded.
This is glitch though.
Let’s also keep in mind when 343 was looking at this back in 2019 (maybe even earlier?) they were most likely looking at Unreal Engine 4, which had its issues that were addressed over time.
For example input latency was a big issue and affected games like Street Fighter V and it was addressed later.
Evil Within 2, GTA V in FPS mode just feel weird, in fact, they’re both in the “uncanny valley” for me as FPS, because they’re by design TPS game.
It’s not just about a camera, it’s about all building around it. Level design is built around the perspective and shooting / physics are also built around the perspective of the player, if it was just a camera thing, a game like Skyrim or Fallout 4 would feel great to play in third person, and they’re kinda terrible to play like this.
Character animations in third person is key, not so much in first person when you can easily focus on the shoot feels. It really is two distinct philosophy of game design, you can’t just change the camera perspective in a FPS and call it a day, there is many consequences to this design change. Some games add an option to play in third or first person but there is allways a perspective where the game will shine the best.
Halo, has a franchise, can shift in third person when you’re in a vehicle or holding a heavy gun, it’s a way to improve control and “character awareness” but the game allways come back to fps when you’re on foot with regular weapon because it’s improve precision and responsiveness.
It’s just some exemples, I could have brought Thief 2014 in the discussion which has animation built to be experience in first person and would simply not work in third, just as Cyberpunk 2077.
We were talking more from an engine perspective, I do agree that a number of things are different between a third person and first person shooter.
Oh sorry !
For the engine talk when… I just want to see a good FPS game in Unreal Engine. And I think if there is so little FPS in Unreal Engine then there must be a good reason. All the first person perspective game I’ve seen in UE are games like Dishonored with a heavy focus on power character and less about shooting mechanics / physics. I could be wrong and ask to be proven wrong, but 343 are not stupid, there is a reason why they kept Blam / SlipSpace for Infinite even if they was big challenges.
I think in general we just don’t get as many new FPS games from big studios nowadays, and those big experienced studios already have a technology plan in place. Most of the fps you see are games where it’s shooting second and something else first (like RPGs).
Nobody can really prove you wrong, except 343. I think it can be done but it is a risk and a challenge, less so because of engine constraints and moreso because the code in Slipspace/Blam is such a mess that there could be little things built on top of each other than impact the end result that aren’t really all that recognizable. It isn’t a whole lot different than what many SW engineers deal with when deciding whether to contain to maintain a mess or throw it out.
1 Like
I totally agree with you. Even Respawn did not use unreal for Titan Fall 2 or Apex while they used it for Jedi Fallen order.
I’ll probably drop it after this, but companies choosing a non UE engine is not proof that UE can’t do the job. It could be something as simple as a new start up studio choosing the engine they are most comfortable with.
It is pretty noteworthy and especially relevant to this thread that Apex used their Titanfall engine, which was based off of Source (incredibly old legacy code in there, I’m sure), to create a large open world live service title that features regular updates and plenty of content.
Hopefully SlipSpace can catch up and become that. The most positive outlook we can have is that 343 is just a bit behind and will have the ideal Halo live service title in just a matter of time.
2 Likes
Unreal engine 4 can’t do open world if it does you end up with Gotham knights a subpar 30fps even struggles on PC but it seems UE5 fixed that. However I doubt they can do that60 to 120 fps on UE 5 considering it ran the Matrix demo at 1440p and 30fps
hopefully.
Fortnite runs 60fps on consoles with both Nanite and Lumen. Sounds like UE 5.1 added improvements to make Lumen more scalable.
1 Like
Fortnite and Crackdown 3 both ran on UE4 without major problems on console or PC 
For FPS on Unreal i really only remember Bioshock, but that was 10 years ago.
I’m just going by what digital foundry was saying when they reviewed the tech for Gotham knights and explained the problems as unreal engine related especially with the open world and low fps count.
True it did but I doubt it could still run the Matrix demo at 60 at that visual level. Fortnite runs on phones, and I think digital foundry even commented on this topic. I know the coalition did some tests and talked about getting the fps to like 45fps in open world scenarios and did believe 60 was possible, only time will tell. I would say though if 343 can build a Halo game complete in UE5 that feels and play like Halo Infinite it would be a first.
You know I was earlier playing Shadow warriors 3 and was reminded quickly it was no HALO. This is the third game in the series using unreal engine like the earlier ones and the gameplay is just flat. This series would be so much better if the gunplay and swordplay was solid but there is just no feel to anything. I can’t tell if my sword is making contact or if my gun is firing.
1 Like