I dont know why people keep on singling out one component, a consoles success has always been determined by multiple factors.
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On the topic of ML, I think it’s fair to assume that every major company in the world that deals in tech is heavily invested in ML. I think most people misunderstand it though. It’s not all one thing. It’s not magic. It’s iterative. People get excited when they hear the term but it can literally mean many different things and have many use cases that impact all areas of development as well as what the products are capable of themselves.
Where Microsoft is a bit more exciting in this respect is that they are one of the top 3 or 4 companies in the world when it comes to AI, ML, deep learning, etc. Now that the top of Microsoft has bought into gaming, I expect Microsoft to try leveraging it as a competitive advantage in the gaming space. It’s not about whether you’re doing it. It’s about being innovative, effective and a leader in that area.
The have a Game Pass platform that allows them to take chances and iterate on products. During Game Stack they showed Ninja Theory working with Microsoft Research. Microsoft Research is a team that helps Microsoft be one of the leading AI companies in the world. Now they’re working with Ninja Theory to use Bleeding Edge as a test case for reinforcement learning.
All this is way off topic but thought I’d address the conversation on it in this thread. Sony and everyone is using ML. Xbox studios have a unique competitive advantage if they want to help lead on it’s use in gaming. Again there’s just a lot to be excited about with Xbox next gen. They just aren’t ready or don’t know how to sell it.
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Honestly could Geoff be more obviously disinterested in Xbox? It’s so disingenuous we he talks about the platform. They really gotta get a new public facing…face for their events I mean PlayStation has Keighley, Greg Miller and other to name a few. Xbox needs influencers that aren’t like Austin Evans tier. I’m not at all surprised Geoff thinks that AAA should be the focus. But Xbox has those games. Marketing is the biggest issue for Xbox right now. It needs consistency and coherence. Like I see PS commercials daily on adult swim and other channels. I see nothing for Xbox. Really gotta wonder what’s going on. They have the hardware and the content, just gotta let people know so when things like this are said you can get ahead of it.
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Maybe desperate is a bit of an exaggeration but it’s the best word I can think of when they provide a game pass commercial because they don’t have anything better to show. I’m also a bit skeptical of the selling factor behind game pass. Don’t get me wrong, I agree that having 100 games with a small fee day one can be a reason to pick up the system, but I think that would matter much more if we knew what next gen games were going to be on the service day one. Most of the early adopters looking to spend hundreds day one on a next gen console aren’t doing so to play last gen games.
I don’t agree that any of the next gen games shown look current gen. GT7 was rough, yes, but it was noticeably better looking than GT Sport. I’ve been playing GT Sport more and more lately and it’s pretty clear every time I load up the game. I also thought CoD looked great. I’m not a fan of Godfall’s art direction but I don’t really think it looks current gen either. I think Medium, Ascent, and ExoMecha look great as well. Issue is, outside of Medium, we haven’t really seen much of these games. I think you’re underestimating how much tying your system to a well regarded engine can have an effect on things. There’s a reason why Microsoft worked so both UE3 and Renderware were as optimal as possible on the 360. Both had potential to be leading licensed engines. Everything about the different approaches this coming generation has lead to the PS5 gathering a lot more mindshare and attention.
We also don’t know 100% that the PS5 doesn’t have any ML hardware. One of my criticisms towards Sony is the lack of hardware information but that’s not nearly as bad because they do have the software to show their system is still very capable. Having software to show what your system can do is much more important than boasting about the hardware with nothing to show for it.
My frustration mainly stems from MS starting off so well just to drop the ball so many times in recent months. It’s not even a PS5 vs XSX thing for me, outside of Sony showing that despite today’s conditions, it is possible to better show off what your system can do.
True but games has generally been the most important factor and Xbox has come up horribly short here.
It would probably help if Xbox had something exciting to show. It seems like some people are so quick to blame other factors, media bias, presenter bias, etc, but have a hard time considering that the core source of the issue is what Xbox has or has not been doing.
I think you are framing their involvement wrong. You are assuming they sought to show off stuff at Gamescom and this was all they could muster. In reality, it seems pretty clear that Geoff was desperately trying to cobble together stuff to show on his end. Where were the major 3rd parties? You can make exactly the same argument you are making towards Sony. How sad that the only thing they had to show was a carbon copy of the stuff they already showed 2.5 months ago! Sad! 
And yes, we do actually know PS5 100% has no ML hardware. Confirmed by Rosario Leonardi on twitter. GT7 is ‘better’ in resolution but it did not look above and beyond current gen in terms of the visual impression it conveyed, to say nothing of its lack of polish visually. Visually CoD looked like current gen CoD to me (which do look GREAT in their own right, granted).
IMHO, Horizon was easily the most visually impressive PS5 title shown to date and even that looks like an evolution of the graphics tech and not what I think most expected (i.e. stylized instead of photoreal). Hellblade, UE and FlightSim are the true next gen showcases so far imho. I don’t see the huge impact for tying PS5 to UE as you do. I think when UE games run best on XSX that association entirely evaporates. We shall see on that front.
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In comparison to the competition they have not come up short for games. I made a thread showing this.
All of those might be 2020 iirc. I think if MS shows off XSS in early-mid September, and then has an event to showcase their launch lineup properly (as in, on final retail hardware, confirmed games for launch, straight gameplay shown).
I’m hoping for a launch window showcase akin to:
FlightSim on XSX ExoMecha The Medium Call of the Sea The Falconeer Minecraft Path Traced Edition Dirt 5 AC Valhalla gameplay on XSX Mass Effect Remastered Halo MP Beta
+360 BC announcements +X1 BC showcases
If MS showcases the value proposition in September and have an XO launch lineup blowout on games, nobody will care or give a shit about how things have felt in the past few months.
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Eh? Surely your first comments are you being silly.
Unless I misunderstood ya, I think I quoted the right response and replied in kind, no? You replied to KageMaru expressing his cynicism about what Xbox has been showing in terms of games, to which you replied that there plenty of smaller games we have seen and those are being ignored (by KageMaru and many others). That thread of the back n forth is why I responded by noting that there is still a lot of opportunity to show what KageMaru was wanting to see here and noting that evidence of that can be found in what we have seen of the games you listed yourself, ref’d in your reply to him.
My point was that there are games revealed already that deserve attention and that there is still lots of time to build that hype up and that ONL or even the July event won’t matter much if they do great in Sept/Oct.
Funny thing- no one is asking why COD gameplay is in 1080p only? Can’t PS5 run it in 4k? Why not show 4k image?
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I can’t help but wonder how much this situation is similar to back when Xbox revealed xsx at game awards and everyone was waiting in frustration for PS5 reveal.
Same thing is happening here i guess 
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Thought it was 4k/120?
As per statments, it is 4k resolution and/or 120 fps.
I am referring to gameplay hypes. The uploaded video (as per DF analysis) is only 1080p60.
And apparently no one is asking why game is not running at 4k60.
I am not doubting the game running at 4k but the dual nature of media and forums which eat away the Halo reveal like vulture but can’t even begin to notice COD only running at 1080p.
Ah I got ya. Yeah same thing happening with Spiderman where ppl assume 60 fps mode means it is 60 fps without other compromises. I think the confirmation of R&C having a 60 fps mode at the expense of resolution means the same will likely take place for Spidey too.
Didn’t know about CoD being 1080p for its 120fps mode. Is Dirt 5 4k AND 120 fps?
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They definitely needed people who knew their gaming on that, for sure.
But those casual gamers he had actually do represent a good portion of the market. If you can get them excited, then you can get most of the industry excited. And I’m not just talking about content (as in particular games and IPs) but also how that content was presented.
All this Stanton talk had me going back to his E3 2004 presentation, and how much more exciting it was than the Infinite demo because of what he was communicating to the audience.
If you can’t get those casual gamers (original definition of the term back in 90s & 2000s) then you have to look at the products you’re making. Yuji Naka’s game had a lot of appeal with them, that’s noteworthy.
You’re confusing using AI to create stuff vs realtime AI used in games. The PS5 doesn’t like it supports INT4 or INT8 ops.
For sure. The PS4 had few noteworthy 1st party titles in its 1st two years, relying on 3rd party. But they really started pushing units when they did. So first party games do have an important role. If we look at the “pillars” of what makes a good console, 1st party is one of them.
MS are simply behind. They are doing the right things, but are just a few years back of where they need to be. I always look to the Minecraft purchase as the time where they could have bought 3 high end studios, a few AA studios and some Indies. We’d be having a completely different discussion right now. I know it’s not this simple, but if $750 million of that $2.5 bil purchase instead went to CD Project Red, this whole situation would look very different.
Sorry i completely miss understood you, thought u were somone else, my bad.
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Yep I agree, games are the most important pillar, i never said they were not. There are going to be quieter years for sony/ms. Its so dumb every time there is a quiet time ppl are like “omg this console has no games”
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What boggles my mind is that “Xbox has no games” but also that when it comes to games “Xbox has quantity but no quality”.
You’re right, there are lulls and it even happens to Nintendo despite them having many highly sought IPs and a whole stable of “AA” tier IPs as well. Release schedules are a tricky thing to manage.
I’m not assuming that Xbox tried to show off stuff at the show, I’m just saying that whether they approached Geoff or Geoff approached them, if this is the best they could do, they shouldn’t have even bothered. To be fair what we saw was an evolved form of the demo we saw in June and as someone who loves tech, it was interesting to see the improvements to the engine on top of the additional scenes. Between the ray tracing, amazing animation, destructible environments, reactive environments, object density, and so much more, it’s easily one of the best showcases of next gen potential.
Thanks for clarifying on Rosario’s confirmation, didn’t realize that and I follow him heh.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the impact to both approaches here. Regardless of your or my opinion of the games shown, the fact that we’ve seen captured on ps5 hardware so many times shows how good Sony is getting their system out there in the minds of gamers.
I saw that thread and those are all awesome looking games with a lot of potential. I’m talking about 1st party though.
I agree the game situation could be better, but Its still pretty good especially compared to the competition (im not saying you are saying this, its just something I think is relevant to the conversation)
This topic of discussion has certain people trying to make it very black or white, trying to push it in the direction of the line up being “bad”.
I dont think theres much more to discuss on this topic, we need more information.
Reguarding Keighley, I actually like the guy, i mean he is only human and humans are influenced by things. I think he must be ignorant or just doesn’t trust xbox studios to be able to deliver big AAA games, which is rather odd but I dont think its because of sinister or biased reasons. I think its because he has seen more from sony that he likes, but If somone presented the argument of avowed, Hellblade 2, fable everwild and forza being AAA games and that demonstrates ms commitment to big AAA I think Keighley would agree but then counters that short term this is not the case which he does have a point.