Games Analysis |OT| Time To Argue About Pixels And Frames!

[LifeForms]

@KageMaru

This isn’t true. Both systems use a combination of CPU performance and custom compression block. Sony’s IO system also has some additional benefits over what MS have created, like the GPU scrubbers and co-processors that help manage data.

Which part is not true? In road to PS5 cerny never said the zen2 cores do any io processing and the series consoles do there io processing on part of a zen 2 core, they dont have dedicated io hardware, the onky dedicated ssd hardware in the series consoles is the decompression chip, also the sfs hardware in the SoC can result in textures requiring less data.

[LifeForms]

@TavishHill

Raw speed is faster but actual apples to apples comparisons favor XSX wrt I/O and RAM utilization since SFS brings a 2.5 fold scale factor to streaming capabilities (it’s 3+ for textures alone but overall balances to a reliable 2.5 factor). Everyone ignores that for whatever reason. 4.8*2.5 = 12 GB/s (> 8-9 GB/s on PS5). The files being transfered into RAM are 2-3 times smaller on XSX if SFS is being used, so there are lots more room for assets there and less need to stream in the first place.

It will be pretty crazy if series consoles have better ssd performance because of SFS hardware.

[No-1HoloLens-Fan]

@ProgStopper

So I guess Xbox Series X version of The Medium is the best place to play it going by the DF Video on the PC Version?

DRS is the key here

[LifeForms]

I found the redgamingtech video where he makes completely unfounded claims.

Playstation 5 | RDNA 2 GPU Features, Geometry Engine, OS Reserves | Exclusive

At 5.50 he says XSX focuses on compute as helped by its wider design and can do machine learning rather well, and the PS5 is better at geometry and data latency.

How on earth is the PS5 better at geometry or data latency. Xsx will be better at geometry simply because its gpu is more powerful and data latency gets interesting because the xsx does have a significant ram advantage.

If you continue to watch the video he makes it sound like the PS5s gemomentry engine is a proprietary custom block on the GPU which is crucial to PS5s performance? Is there any truth to this? Has Cerny created a custom block on the PS5s GPU which greatly improves performance over vanilla RDNA2?

[No-1HoloLens-Fan]

@LifeForms

I found the redgamingtech video where he makes completely unfounded claims.

At 5.50 he says XSX focuses on cumpute as helped by its wider design and can do machine learning rather well, and the PS5 is better at geometry and data latency.

How on earth is the PS5 better at geometry or data latency. Xsx will be better at geometry simply because its gpu is more powerful and data latency gets interesting because the xsx does have a significant ram advantage.

These YouTubers are the only one holding the ground for PS5 as a hardware. Even the SSD is not breathtaking on PS5 given the raw speed is twice the series X. Maybe PS5 tools are also lacking?

The most compute heavy task happen in shaders and series X has advantage there because it can run more things in parallel.

We are also seeing the results coming out of the overall performance. 1800p vs 2160p

I still believe from market point of view PS5 is still a better platform. But XSX is cleary the best hardware.

Edit: i don’t think the youtubers are to be blamed here. They simply have more PS5 releated info. So they usually talk more about PS5.

[LifeForms]

Frankly its bizarre if sony went with a custom geometry engine, when PC and xbox are using vanilla RDNA2, TURING and AMPHERE mesh shading, PS5 is going to be the odd one out a bit like how the PS3 was with its ram setup and cell.

[KageMaru]

@LifeForms

Which part is not true? In road to PS5 cerny never said the zen2 cores do any io processing and the series consoles do there io processing on part of a zen 2 core, they dont have dedicated io hardware, the onky dedicated ssd hardware in the series consoles is the decompression chip, also the sfs hardware in the SoC can result in textures requiring less data.

Compression blocks are hardware dedicated to IO…and you think the CPU isn’t used at all for loading data on the PS5? What…?

[LifeForms]

@KageMaru

Compression blocks are hardware dedicated to IO…and you think the CPU isn’t used at all for loading data on the PS5? What…?

Arhh, i see, I was understanding decompression and io processing to be two separate things, I know broadly speaking everything to do with the ram and ssd is input/output but in terms of which bits of hardware do io processing and decompression both microsoft and sony have said they are processed on different parts of the hardware e.g decompression is done on the decompression blocks and io processing nis done on the io co-processors on the ps5 and on a zen2 core on the series consoles. I dont know if the ps5 uses zen2 to do io processing, cerny never said but because the io co processors are called “co”-processors it suggests that they are not the only hardware processing io.

[TavishHill]

@LifeForms

I found the redgamingtech video where he makes completely unfounded claims.

LOL

Almost all of his PS5 tech videos are based on unfounded nonsense. The guy is clueless when it comes to most of the console tech stuff.

[Boosted_Gear]

RedGamingTech is the “PS5 is RDNA 3” guy. Based on that, I already dismissed everything he said.

[TavishHill]

@LifeForms

Frankly its bizarre if sony went with a custom geometry engine, when PC and xbox are using vanilla RDNA2, TURING and AMPHERE mesh shading, PS5 is going to be the odd one out a bit like how the PS3 was with its ram setup and cell.

PS5’s GE is a programmable version of the bog standard AMD GE from a while back. Being programmable is a big deal, but mesh shaders are much more flexible and efficient at what the GE’s do. Mesh shaders replace the entire geo pipeline and are more programmable. I think PS5’s GE will do just fine though, even if not quite as good as mesh shaders.

RGT leans heavily into the GE stuff b/c he stupidly got confused about its purported relationship to VRS, which he has insisted is in PS5 for the past 8 months (spoiler: it’s not). He got invested in that VRS claim so heavily since he REALLY wanted to find excuses to pretend the compute differential wasn’t really there and because he wanted to push his debunked theory that PS5 can’t lack RDNA2 features (despite this being confirmed by AMD/MS/Sony). He wanted to insist instead that PS5 was RDNA3 for [reasons]. He really, really wanted to swallow what Cerny was pushing wrt narrow/fast > wide/slow (which isn’t true in most use cases for gaming anyhow).

Once upon a time when MS first showed off VRS at GDC 2020 and highlighted their rendering efficiency, Matt Hargett (former Sony dev) tweeted that while that stuff was impressive ppl should wait to see what kinda efficiency gains are possible with PS5’s GE. Note that VRS and GE have nothing to do with each other, and mesh shaders are the comparable tech to GE and mesh shaders are more programmable/flexible/efficient.

Due to Hargett’s tweet being awkwardly worded, Sony fans on ResetEra mistook his tweet as a ‘confirmation’ that PS5 had VRS and that it was somehow baked into the GE. Since the gaming press often just regurgitates whatever the mobs on ResetEra start chanting, it was all over the press not long after and never got corrected. When another dev on that forum tried to explain that the geometry stage and the drawing stage (where VRS happens) are totally separate, unrelated things, somehow Sony fans again took this dev’s posts as ‘confirmation’ of VRS in PS5. Both Hargett and the dev on ResetEra clarified they were not confirming anything related to VRS in PS5, but ppl like RGT kept repeating the assertion it was present repeatedly even after this all happened no matter how many times he was corrected.

RGT also thoughtlessly promoted wild theories about PS5 getting its own DLSS tech and its own ML tech despite Sony themselves saying that was not happening. He is a grifter who doesn’t look into the stuff he covers and focuses on telling his audience what they want to hear.

[javycane (Javier Ruiz)]

@Boosted_Gear

RedGamingTech is the “PS5 is RDNA 3” guy. Based on that, I already dismissed everything he said.

There isnt a single reliable Sony insider or fan out there lol.

[Boosted_Gear]

@javycane

There isnt a single reliable Sony insider or fan out there lol.

[Boosted_Gear]

Also apparently MS will apparently talk a little bit about the Series X at the ISSCC during a live Q&A session :

blue nugroho (blueisviolet)

Don’t really mind what the user said if you don’t want to.

[PCPrincipal]

Just Sharing something I found on the internetzzz

Fritzchens Fritz (FritzchensFritz)

[ProgStopper]

What the fuck is going on in here?

[BRiT]

@ProgStopper

What the fuck is going on in here?

Total debunking of the PS5 Infinity Cache that some “Sony Insiders” were pushing.

[ProgStopper]

@BRiT

Total debunking of the PS5 Infinity Cache that some “Sony Insiders” were pushing.

Is that what’s happening?

How the fuck did we get here?

[BRiT]

@PCPrincipal

Just Sharing something I found on the internetzzz

I can’t see enough details to make things out but this sleuth has done the job for us:

@locuza_

My interpretation of the floor plan PS5 floor plan:

1. Bomba surprise that Sony likely cut down the 256-Bit FP pipes to just 128-Bit.

2. No Infinity Cache/L3$, also not on the Xbox Series.

3. Might have the old Render Backend design, need higher res to say for sure.

4. The WGPs are arranged as on RDNA1 GPUs with two sub-arrays. Same goes for the Xbox Series. Navi21/22/23, Van Gogh and Rembrandt only have one sub-array for all WGPs.

5. Higher res needed for a closer FPU look, GPU frontend analysis and details like the Tempest Audio engine.

Tweet 1: https://twitter.com/Locuza_/status/1361026970893627398

Tweet 2: https://twitter.com/Locuza_/status/1361028267629817856

[ProgStopper]

@BRiT

So what does that mean?