40fps kinda seems like it was born out of the poor VRR support on PS5. They could just offer an unlocked mode and let people use VRR.
There’s a pretty huge overlap between folks with 120Hz displays and folks with VRR.
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Yeah, that’s certainly true. Way more people with a normal 4K screen that don’t have all the latest than those that do.
A unlocked mode would be enough? Come on devs, do it!!!
At the time the first 40fps mode game was before Sony even supported VRR on their TVs and on their console. I guess lack of support could be called poor support. Now that they kind of support VRR (only down to 48 Hz), I wonder if they’ll keep pushing 40 fps modes for their first person titles.
From a very fuzzy memory, the number of TVs that support HDR and 120 Hz but NOT VRR is less than a handful, like somewhere in the neighborhood of 3. Some that fit into the 120 Hz but no HDR can only do 120 Hz at 1080p resolution, where the game should be capable of hitting a full on 60.
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PS VRR starts from 48fps
I’m curious to see if devs move away from targeting 60fps and instead go for 30fps and 40fps options as the generation goes on. This would allow them to have more time per frame and should allow generally prettier games. Been playing Cyberpunk at 40fps and it’s a nice compromise.
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Oh, haha. Guess it’s not going anywhere then.
But wouldn’t the compromise be the tech that improves on visuals and performance like VRS, VRR, FSR, DLSS, XeSS? Would developers even use them if they can just do less work for a good enough game?
Developers will use the available tools to get as much as they (and schedule/budget) as they can get out of the hardware.
They could drop frame rates and use all of that functionality for even better graphics. It’s all just trade offs.
It will be terrible for many gamers
Better to do is target 40fps and 60fps modes in development
Then patch 40fps mode as 30fps on non VRR 120 display
I wouldn’t characterize targeting a lower frame as doing less work. There’s no reason devs wouldn’t target lower frame rates while also utilizing technology like VRS, FSR, etc.
Part of the problem is those features you listed mostly benefit GPU bound scenarios. Targeting lower frame rates can also benefit CPU bound situations. That’s why I’ve been playing Cyberpunk at 40fps, my CPU can’t hold a locked 60fps when using RT.
Why patch 40fps mode as 30fps for non-VRR 120Hz displays when 40fps would look a lot better on 120Hz screens that don’t support VRR?
The scenario I described above is for when devs can’t reach a locked 60fps. As this generation goes on, developers will continue to utilize methods to draw out more performance per frame. IMO the best demonstration for “next gen” graphics on these new consoles is the Matrix demo and that’s targeting 30fps for a reason. We’re less likely to get those graphics at 60fps but maybe 40fps.
Non VRR and non 120Hz display
In short 60fps displays
I am trying to build a PC with 40fps in mind
3060 is my prime contender for gpu. It it has 12 GB vram which is unusual but the buying point of the card
For CPU I am going with ryzen 5 5600 (basically same frequency as the consoles)
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Ohhh sorry, I read that wrong. Yeah for people with 60Hz displays, they’d have to play at 30fps. I’m not saying I want 60fps to go away BTW. Im just saying in scenarios where 30fps would be the target for 60Hz displays, it’d be nice if a 40fps option was possible for those with 120Hz displays.
And that sounds like a good PC! That would give you close to console performance in pure rasterization but stomp the hell out of them with RT performance while also having the option to use features like DLSS. I’ve actually been slowly moving towards gaming on PC more and more. Outside of some port issues, it’s been great.
Nvidia runs RT the best and DLSS would be great for 40 fps gaming
Just waiting for an odd chance that any 4060 or 4050 may come out with 12 GB vram
The realeas of these cards would also bring down the prices of 3060 in market
The stuttering and shader compilation issue on PC is making me hold my series X a little longer
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Yeah, those lingering PC issues lead me to still game on my Series X as well. Thankfully that should improve in time as well. It’s just great to have options imo. I was fine playing Witcher at 60fps on console but wanted RT, so the PC was the perfect option for that as well.
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30fps games won’t sell, not anymore.
I think the widespread implementation of 60fps is a huge gamechanger this gen & (for me) makes pc gaming redundant, i.e. because beyond having prettier graphics (not so important) performance was the real reason I reckon many people went pc in past generations at some point (such as myself). And 40fps isn’t a substitute or acceptable ‘compromise’ either. A Plague Tale Requiem for example on a 120hz tv with its 40fps still feels choppy & not particularly enjoyable. Image quality also suffers in motion in 30 & 40fps games.
A simple “next gen feel” test is straightforward: take an oled 120hz tv, then back-to-back boot up Assassin’s Creed Origins with its 60fps Series X update (in 60hz mode in the console settings, to prevent ghosting), then try Matrix demo or even A Plague Tale Requiem at 40fps (in the 120hz mode).
I absolutely guarantee Origins looks next gen with its pristine image quality in motion, whereas Requiem in particular just looks muddy. Diminishing returns in texture quality & graphics means the more detailed geometry in A Plague Tale Requiem is not felt & doesn’t offset the worse motion which itself absolutely damages the overall presentation.
So IMO 60fps is next gen & must be the default from here on. I don’t care about drops down into the 50’s either because VRR fixes that, but a 60fps target is essential.
It’s definitely true that 60fps has “spoilt” us ever since the start of the new consoles. Actually on Xbox One and PS4 we had some 60fps games, but the majority was still 30fps. Now we have gotten used to 60fps, so it’s jarring to go back to 30fps. Still, I did just that for Guardians of the Galaxy because the difference in picture quality was too big, and before long I got used to 30fps again. Not every 30fps implementation is bad either, RDR2 and Witcher 3 have great ones.
I see where you’re coming from that 40fps can’t be a substitute for 60fps, but I’m afraid we will come to a point again where some truly big games will be 30fps. I can see Starfield being one, maybe with a optional performance mode with hopefully as little visual sacrifices as possible.
AC Origins has ghosting if you play the game with 120hz enabled on XSX? That is odd.
I definitely agree with you about the last bit, but since so few people have TVs that have VRR I wonder if devs are gonna bother with it. It certainly would be great if they did.
It’s not just AC Origins, it’s any 60 fps game running in 120hz gets a weird ghosting effect which affects image quality. One of the best recent examples for me is the Resident Evil 4 demo: in 120hz mode, I see a weird trail behind Leon’s hair as he moves. It’s distracting. According to John Linneman of Digital Foundry this is due to 120hz basically doubling the frames where there shouldn’t be any, so it’s always better to set the console’s refresh rate to match the game. Like 60 fps games should be played in 60hz mode.
I didn’t know this & I had mistakenly set my Series X in the 120hz mode & just left it but I definitely noticed the improvement in 60hz mode. I can’t say enough just how good 60 fps games look on an oled tv on the Series X with the console set to 60hz.
As for VRR, more people should know of its benefits. It eliminates the feel of sub 60 fps frame drops in most games. It basically means all those youtubers who make a living comparing frame rates in console games should eventually be put out of business because it just doesn’t matter when a game drops to 50 fps anymore. With VRR I just don’t feel it.
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Here’s the quote in question (this was about Elden Ring):
It’s really odd, but the RE4 demo for me runs horrible in the resolution mode when using 60hz, like 30fps or worse outdoors and 60fps indoors. When I set the Xbox to 120hz it’s smooth all the way.
I don’t have the game myself, so I don’t know if I would opt for resolution mode or performance mode, but I find it so weird.