Games Analysis |OT| Time To Argue About Pixels And Frames!

That (a major middleware vendor is late with features to your plattform) should be not acceptable for Microsoft. Send a team to help!

Cool FH5 tech interview :slight_smile:

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Just thought I’d update on this as I haven’t seen it mentioned.

Digital Foundry have basically confirmed some of the earlier reports around Insomniacs games running at a very high frame rate (following the VRR patch) as inaccurate.

In most cases the frame rate is actually somewhere between a 1/3 or 1/2 of the reported figure on the TV. The TV graph is basically being confused by low frame rate compensation (duplicate frames).

Skip to 14:37

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Ya… It basically means in the quality mode if the frame rate is showing you above 60 fps, then simply assume the actual FPS is half of that. Similarly in MSFS as well.

Only frame rate modes go above 60 fps

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Ps5 implementation of VRR is disappointingly half assed.

It was somewhat expected given that on Playstation devs are granted more control over the display compared to xbox side which relies on the system vsync implementation, but even with that in mind there is some weird stuff like the range being limited to 48hz even on TVs that the range goes down to 40 even without LFC.

And of course the fact that LFC requires the dev to implement the feature, making it pretty much unused.

I wonder if they even planned VRR support originally. Until Xbox did that, it became popular and people started to ask for it.

Hard to know. Phil mentioned that their team was talking to gpu, tv and hdmi consortium for a while (even before 1x) so they could lineup those features along the launch of new consoles. Sony was involved in those as well certainly, but they still decided not to make changes on their side that could make the system work at a system level as it should.

Though I can see why they would too, it would be a departure from the PS4 programming model, and they said one of their goals was to make PS5 development as close as it was from Ps4, so perhaps they thought it wouldn’t be worth it making breaking api changes over.

PS5 VRR System Update Tested and Discussed - Is It a Game-Changer?

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… because Sony.

That is such a classic Sony move. :rofl:

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Best VRR implementation because Insomniac has some custom best implementation (c)

I can already imagine internet discussions :joy:

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Is this true?

Yes. Thats true.

Read the DF article or watch their video @ The PS5 VRR update: tested and discussed by Digital Foundry | Eurogamer.net

Most importantly, VRR on PS5 only works within a narrow window defined by the HDMI Forum’s 2.1 standard, between 48Hz and 60Hz (on a 60Hz screen) or 48Hz and 120Hz (on a 120Hz screen). Normally a feature called Low Framerate Compensation (LFC) will kick in at frame-rates below the VRR window, essentially doubling or tripling frames to ensure that VRR remains active. For example, if your game is running at 40fps, then you could double that to 80fps to remain within the 48 to 120Hz range. On PS5 though, it’s possible to drop out of the VRR window entirely, which can lead to judder and all the other symptoms that VRR seeks to alleviate.

Thankfully, developers can implement VRR patches to mimic LFC functionality, as Insomniac has done with titles like Spider-Man: Miles Morales and Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart. Here, the game is able to detect that you’re running with VRR enabled on the system level, and expose slightly different modes that run with unlocked frame-rates and LFC, allowing you to benefit from the advantages VRR brings without the drawbacks.

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So clearly Insomniac was the outlier (and it seems those previous videos arent accurate?)

I dont know what videos youre talking about, but if its about framerates shown on TVs, when using VRR its not always accurate when LFC is engaged. When LFC happens it doubles or triples the framerate by sending duplicate frames. IE: the TV shows 82 FPS but its really 41 fps running with 2 identical frames, or it shows 120 fps when its really 40 fps running with 3 identical frames.

DF talks about that too and mentions MS FlightSimulator showing 120 FPS on some TVs when the real system fps is lower. Its for sure in their DF Weekly video on the subject. Its possibly in their PS VRR specific video too. Thats how LFC works.

Edit: DF Weekly Article @ DF Direct Weekly on PS5 VRR, Steam Deck's 40Hz upgrade and 900W next-gen GPUs | Eurogamer.net

The VRS discussion is the first 22 minutes of the video

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VRR on Xbox:

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Can someone please summarize the performance of PS5 VRR? I’m aware of when dev like Insomniac put work on it, it will be great, but in general consensus, what’s the verdict?

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It really does. There is some benefits in giving devs greater control over features but from my experience it is normally better to automate things at the system level, because the vast majority of devs will not bother for whatever reason and you get more inconsistencies that way.

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Already been done, read this post for DF summary @ Games Analysis |OT| Time To Argue About Pixels And Frames! - #6265 by BRiT

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Will be interesting to see Xbox Series comparison.

But funny that by not having series comparison, Sony gets free marketing as it creates the impression that the game is not coming on Xbox, and that the game runs the same on Xbox.

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