Forza Motosport has an identity problem


I had a late PS4, and GT Sport and Project Cars 2 nailed the racing. The cars handled great. It felt realistic in a fun way.

Last year I also dipped into sim racing on PC with the great Assetto Corsa and AC Competizione. These two games feel realistic in a harsh way. They will punish more than GT-S but they feel right.

FM7 does not feel right. The car handling is weird, it is like there is a disconnection between your actions and the road. It is the RDR2 of car games, the cars feel on mud.

Maybe I am trying to play it like a simulator and it should be played like an arcade? But… if I wanted to play an arcade… I have Forza Horizons, Dirt 5 and Wreckfest. Why would I play Forza?

It would be great if Microsoft changed what FM is , maybe teaming up with Kunos Simulazioni to develop a proper driving sim with the physics of Assetto Corsa but with the content of Forza.


Motorsport is closer to the hardcore sims than it is to arcade games imo, it’s the lower end of a racing sim. They’ve done a complete overhaul of the Forzatech engine and are doing things to improve the sim like aspects of the game which should help the handling of cars. I don’t think Motorsport was ever suppose to be a racing sim like rFactor and the like. I think it’s just GT-S became more simlike while Forza continued to be more of a casual sim.

They’re rebuilding Motorsport this time around and have had a ton of time to get things right so you should see an improvement in the next game, they’re launching it as Forza Motorsport as a foundation title where it’ll just be updated over time and we won’t see bi-yearly titles like we used to.


The things you criticize here are exactly why Motorsport is the most popular simcade franchise in the industry along with Gran Turismo. It’s realistic, but not too much.


By coincidence yesterday I chose the original game in Delroys " Xbox History: The Best Games by Month" thread as my choice for May 2005, Spooky!

While I was looking for a cover image I read of its development on wikipedia and this quote stood out to me, even before this thread was made.

The game began with a team of only 20 people and was, according to Turn 10 studio head Dan Greenawalt, originally an excellent simulator, but not as fun as a game. He stated that the team then worked “to make the physics more accessible, more handle-able. So we started on the game.”[14] Greenawalt further noted that he wanted it to be a “car collecting game.” To aid with that Turn 10 hired a designer formerly of Nintendo’s Pokémon team and said that the team “played a lot of Animal Crossing and Diablo II.”

So it was always the intention to lean on Arcade a little rather than go “full sim”. I liked that the hope was for a “car collection game” as well above pure sim, as that is what I always played the games as :smiley:


But… is it really popular anymore? Here is a list of first week sales of Forza Series

  1. Forza Motorsport 4 - 515,859
  2. Forza Horizon 3 - 406,753
  3. Forza Motorsport 5 - 350,588
  4. Forza Horizon 2 - 328,101
  5. Forza Horizon - 316,820
  6. Forza Motorsport 2 - 228,684
  7. Forza Motorsport 6 - 221,042
  8. Forza Motorsport 3 - 209,389
  9. Forza Motorsport 7 - 176,150


I remember playing Forza 2 and loving it. Yes I think I could notice it felt slightly “cheaper” than GT, but it was fun. FM7 is slightly unrealistic and not fun. The car feels like it is on mud.

My theory is that we are living different times. Now we watch streamers trying to speed-run games, we watch people learning edgy combos on fighting games. In the old times (8/16bit) games were hard, then in the xbox/x360 era they went soft and now there is a renaissance of games that are hard to master.

This is not a sim Vs arcade games thing. I love Trackmania, Dirt5 and Wreckfest for the very same 3 reasons because they are easy to learn, hard to master and physics feel fun.

FM7 to me, now, feels like the car is rolling on top of an algorithm made for someone to feel like he or she can drive a car fast. A car with training wheels stuck. By the way Project cars 3 had the same problem, they decided to make it easy. And it is hated by everyone.

I don’t really know to be honest, and given I haven’t played motorsport for years (since I like Horizon) I’m the least qualified person to say on what they should do. Certainly I am not good enough to “notice” how bad it is, perhaps they try something new or a new direction. I found it an interesting coincidence is all, and that even from day 1 they prioritised not being too “simmy”.

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I really dont find Forza Horizon that interesting, I dont like to feel I am wandering. Skyrim on wheels lol.

I think the secret of GT and early Forzas is that they felt real, back then. But now people has changed, people who wants fun got to Horizon and people who wants pure driving go to GT or Assetto Corsa. Why would you want to collect 300 cars that by today stardards feel fake?

The only way I could get excited about forza is to make it like, you know Flight Simulator, but with … cars.

Ah a connoisseur, have you tried “Desert Bus”, its one of the most realistic racing games out there. Including the rewards. It’s sublime! So realistic that you could all sit infront of “ye Ol’telly” with a few rows of seats and get the full bus experience! Make sure to invite a few annoying neighborhood kids and their mums!

All kidding aside, for me FM stopped being fun when it was too much on “realism” and too many loading screens with “Jeremy Clarckson tells you shit!”. I just wanted to buy a cheap car, put a big engine on it (with money I earned racing) and keep doing that for a long time :stuck_out_tongue: . But then suddenly everything had to be “realistic and you have to be able to lose”. Screw that! Gimme my VW Beetle from 1966 and let me make that shit so overpowered so that I can live out my Herbie Fantasies! :stuck_out_tongue: .

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This is me. I hate the super cars in this game, hate them! I want to ride around a track in my old Mazda 323Fastback, or soup up our current Skoda Karoq. I care not for racing with a Veyron :smiley:

I am not worried about FM and the new focus on Motorsport. The game will be very good.


If you feel like we could have some casual races with Assetto Corsa since it is in Game Pass. I suggest an easy track like Brands Hatch Indy so it is quick to learn I am testing cars to se which one are fun with the XBOX gamepad. I am enjoying these ones so far:

  • Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale: Old fashioned but very easy to control, powerful and fun. And beautiful car.
  • The Alfa Romeo 4C is also good. Kinda feels like a modern version of the Stradale. This is the car I normaly play on the PC when I want to learn a track.
  • The BMW M3 E30. I love how the car behaves when you push it a bit hard.

If you install the games you have to try these 2 cars just for the fun.

  • Shelby Cobra: Absolutely bonkers car, so hard to control and fast
  • Lotus Type 49: This is what F1 were back in the time when they were supported just by their own weight and not the aerodynamics

So It would be great if you could try the cars on that track and we could eventually spend a good time racing together, just for fun.

By the way learn to play without the ideal racing line, learning the racing line is part of the fun, guessing the correct speed and all that. It makes the game so much more immersive.

My only gripe with FM is that they keep putting irrelevant SUVs or other bizarre Vans that makes no sense and almost no one cares about this stuff, when they could add more iconic cars from the past.

If they have a rally mode in the new game maybe these cars would make a little more sense, aside from the sport SUVs.

Jup, half the fun when you accept your “Dadness” and give in to your fantasies of winning races with the Family Skoda Fabia or Ford Focus ;).

Sadly for me that embrace of dadness happened at a far to early age :(.

Oh Yeah I have been in full “Mama Mode” for at least 20 years, driving round a track and thinking about the lateral forces making my shopping and children fly round the boot :smiley:

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In my mind, if I had kids, they’d be opening the window to shoot with slingshots at the other racers. Daddy needs this win! :stuck_out_tongue: . And yeah, the kiddos would be"WEEEEEEE! FUN!" in the back of course :P.

Started quite early for me, took a Suzuki Alto to beef up in SEGA GT 2000, “Daddy’s coming!” :P.

Ah, half the fun is the game we make ourselves :P.

I think it’s more down to the games becoming very samey for a long time, a new motorsport every 2 years it’s bound to get a lot samey.

You seem to be in the minority, the Motorsport games have always reviewed well.

Sales don’t matter anymore. If you look at Gamstat, Forza 7 was en route to be the most played game in the Motorsport franchise ever by November - before they shut down the web xd - because of Game Pass, regardless of launch sales.

Also it had 6 million players before Game Pass, so those are 6 million sales. Still a huge number. 5 and 6 are higher because they were given away with Games With Gold.

Not to mention that around 50-60% of sales nowadays are digital, which makes the most recent entries in the franchise appear lower in terms of physical sales.

Also… VGChartz. Wow. That site is banned in serious forums because they have 0 sources. For you to see how off their estimations for anything are, Daniel Ahmad - a serious analyst - said in 2019 that the Xbox One was “well above” 50 million units sold, and those guys still have it at exactly 50 million when it’s more like 60 million.

In fact they stopped reporting software because they had no idea.

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Oh dear so many lines to back that FM7 is a success. Ok whatever. That’s why there’ is so much hype about FM8.

I have a Fanatec wheel with Clubsport pedals for the 360 Forza games and I hated the fact that there were steering assists that you couldn’t turn off.

The suspension modeling was also suspect. I appreciate the tire physics though.

I think the big difference is that a game like Gran Turismo is made with the wheel in mind first and foremost. It seems the opposite with Forza. I remember promotional video where Turn 10 had real drifters come and play the game and they were having troubles with it. And I think it’s because all of the assists kicked in and made it something completely different.

So I feel the Forza games are good racing games to play with a controller. But not serious sims. The big difference between Motorsport and Horizon being the circuit races on real life tracks vs an open world. That changes the progression in the games as well, but they’re not entirely different (you race to unlock credits and open new races).