Bingo.
It’s a plastic box. Don’t tie your personal identity to a brand or a corporation or a gadget.
None of this is worth getting upset over. There’s more than enough to get outraged over in the real world— this ain’t it.
The exact argument verbatim can be used to dismiss literally anything that takes place in the industry. And who, specifically (and with what direct evidence) are you accusing of ‘tying personal identity to a brand/corporation/etc’?
This is reductionist, just like the blanket statements about ‘the media’. Neither are conducive to constructive discussion of the thread topic.
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I don’t understand what you mean by googling to demonstrate the motivations of some here. That motivation is pretty clear IMO.
I’m also not trying to attack anyone by mentioning them defending a trillion dollar company. MS is a trillion dollar company and they are defending them with some outrageous claims. I don’t care to win anything but will refrain from repeating that line.
I understand about wanting a baseline competency but there are realities to consider. Those realities are these people have their own stories, reviews, etc. to focus on and they likely don’t spend nearly as much time as many gamers going over articles. Take the video below for example. Both people have spent years in the industry but they are off on a number of things. Does that mean they are biased against Xbox? I don’t think so.
I also never called anyone a dumb fanboy. The fact that I don’t consider anyone a dumb fanboy is why I’d hope for more out of the discussion than just spouting examples without any evidence.
Justified or not, a part of the coverage we see today is due to the failings of MS past. The hit to their mindshare directly contributes to public interest or the lack thereof. More people are just interested in Playstation right now and that leads to a larger audience to cater to. Do I think that gives a site an excuse to bash Xbox? Not at all but I don’t really think that’s happening anyways.
I completely agree that every claim should be a case by case basis. That way we can hopefully see things in a better context that leads to better discussions.
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You assert something is ‘pretty clear’, but others would contend that media bias against Xbox is ‘pretty clear’ too. And you demand they provide evidence to back that up (which is appropriate!)…yet you feel no need to back up your accusation against these posters. You just make the assertion as a way to dismiss their concerns out of hand via a personal attack. You can say ya didn’t intend to personally attack them…but you are literally labeling them as dumb fanboys just in different words. That is what it means to accuse ppl of only holding certain views based on defending a piece of plastic, etc. And maybe that is fair but ya should have to back that up on a case by case basis.
How are you supposed to parse ‘criticizing media outlets’ with ‘defending Microsoft the corporation’, exactly? You do not seem to be distinguishing these at all and I’d note you are not positioned to identify anyone doing the latter just from a few forum posts. That’s an accusation you are making about motives behind posts and some emotional responses to stuff, but you’ve no access to how they think or feel about such topics beyond what they post here. My point is you are doing the same thing you accuse them of doing! Anyhow, I won’t belabor that further.
You say ‘but there are realities to consider’…the logistical challenges involves are not the responsibility of the audience. I dunno why you seem so desperate to shift responsibility for good journalism onto any one and any thing other than the outlets themselves. MS and their own efforts is 100% irrelevant to the thread topic. No amount of contextual contortions changes that.
I don’t think pointing to Halo: Infinite’s reaction is a great example of whatever point you were trying to make there. They are reacting in the moment to something hot of the presses, so to speak. They aren’t writing some story analyzing anything in some meaningful context, even though they offer insightful commentary.
I bet nearly everyone in this thread would agree with a lot of what they say there fwiw. If those guys want to write an article about the game and its controversy or whatnot, they should be expected to inform themselves with relevant background research first and frame things in the proper context (and no that does not mean it needs to twist things to be pro-Halo). In fact, I’d very passionately argue the proper context is one that (while still hopeful for the game) is rather harsh on 343 and MS.
So yeah, the press should be held to a high standard imho. Their failures are not MS’s fault and those faults should not be what the thread becomes about.
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You make good points and are right in many ways. My comment on the clear motivation was just towards pushing that there’s a bias in the media. In no way did I intend to call anyone dumb fanboys, directly or indirectly, so I do apologize there.
I’m also not trying to shift responsibility for good journalism. I think most of the people in the industry have the best interests and try the best they can. Outside of personalities like CrapGamer or sites like Push Square, I don’t really see the bias that’s being discussed here and that’s probably where the disconnect is coming from. I still disagree that the market today is irrelevant but I won’t further push that point.
The whole point of me posting that Halo video is that they were off on some things that people in their chat made them aware of. Basically these are all humans and aren’t going to know everything 100% of the time. Is the argument then to just not saying anything at all? Maybe but then do we know these journalists are aware when they get things wrong and just don’t care? Also do we know if the complaints wouldn’t then shift that they are now ignoring a certain topic or platform?
I agree that the press should be held to a high standard. I’m sure most try to match up to those standards. I just think claims of media bias is unhealthy as it warps opinions and that goes in every way. Digital Foundry is one of the more objective minded sites but all too often I’ve seen people say they are biased towards Xbox or biased towards Playstation when neither is accurate. Jumping on the media bias bandwagon leads to this altered view of realities and it’s here where I think gamers should hold some responsibility.
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A more interesting conversation than “media bias” is the quality of gaming journalism in general. It feels like most gaming sites are glorified PR machines. We have a few rare exceptions with the likes of Jason Schreier. Are there people working at games media outlets that are less knowledgeable about Xbox? Yes 100%. I just don’t see what any games media person would get out of downplaying Xbox or intentionally giving Xbox bad media for the sake of Sony. It makes no sense. That’s why i really dislike people calling games coverage they don’t like “media bias” seems like the kind of thing you see people using when talking about politics. Gaming is a hobby after all. Even if media bias against xbox did exist I wouldn’t feel hurt or lose sleep over it.
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Yeah this topic would lead to many interesting discussions, including the kind of power that publishers have where they can blacklist certain sites and while that is their right, it also leads to some outlets being stuck in a horrible position.
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I would not say inherent bias but as media in general is suffering I would think some are trying to get as much money as possible. This could result in “sponsored” media and sites that try to appeal to a bigger fanbase to get more clicks. Then you also have media like “Push Square” that don’t even hide it so yeah. Hard to make a definite statement but the whole landscape is definitely not unbiased.
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A lot of publishers have a bigger budget for third party plats with review copies for PS4. Also a lot of them play on PS4 because the conversation is more so on Playstation.
To be fair whilst I believe there is an element of bias for a number of reasons the word bias doesn’t necessarily mean its someone being unfair or a collective conspiracy. I suspect in most cases its down to pressures of views and personal tastes.
I do think its worth examining though whether people who genuinely feel there is a collective and organised bias are reacting to the actual gaming media OR the use of the stories they produce on the internet. Because I looked up a few topics on google and the actual gaming media were fairly neutral, but you wouldn’t have thought so with the way such stories were portrayed and discussed around the internet and social media. And actually this is something you see with news - read an innocuous article - yet one side of a debate will twist it into being something it isn’t…
[quote=“BananaBox39, post:75, topic:1904”] …gn and GameSpot did with Grounded, why they want to put a mark in game that will evolve with time? To be clear I’m not against reviewing it, but giving it a score now is nothing, but a attempt to bash the game, to cut the hype, because it is Xbox I believe. Yeah, journalists are humans, but humans can be jerks and with professionalism comes responsability, something that a lot of journalist don’t know what it is. A exemple of a jerk is Jason Schreider. Not matter how influent he can be or not, the guy doesn’t like Xbox and use his position to devaluate the brand in every opportunity. I’m not generalizing, there is good journalism and WC is an example of it, but I think we can’t close our eyes to the bias against Xbox, because it is real and yourself already acknowledged that in your twitter. [/quote] Well Said.
Phil is “respected” by the media, because he is not threatening the status quo. He presents himself as content with his share of the pie. He already declared MS doesn’t see Sony as their competitor and don’t seem to be pushing the Series X that much.
If he rocked the boat, reactions would be different. But in the end fortune favors the bold.
Look at Epic. Tim Sweeney tells it like it is. Every time they buy an exclusive the internet screams. And in the end it works for them.
Ok. My two cents comes from a position of watching two close friends who ran Australia’s (at the time) biggest independent gaming site.
They existed in the realm of personality driven reviews and content. Their staff would have fun and still consider the pros and cons of a title but write it up any way they wished. One guy wrote a 3 page review on how cooking mama was not a new sega rally game and that he was disappointed by this.
I listened to them dealing with calls from publishers and PR groups when they slammed Sony in a opinion piece about how disgusting it was that the PS3 was $1000 Australian at launch.
Even then, when Mana Bar opened in Brisbane, the talks between them and the big 3 consoles were about making sure that their consoles got equal weighting for time on the playable stations.
Everything with the media is a big give and take. No matter how well you walk the tightrope, someone can always see a iniquitous action as a slight against them.
I don’t pretend to know how it goes today for those who cover gaming but it still matters about how market share is and that you have to sometimes tailor content towards the audience available to you.
So, yeah. There may be a bias in opinion but I think that as gamers or fans, we will always go with what interests us, same as with any media we wish to consume and when the biggest market is owned by Sony, then the coverage will go with what will speak to the majority.
Also, my own opinion is that there is a lack of care given by some in the coverage of Xbox. However, considering how much news we see in a week of gaming and covering all the platforms, you have to decide how best to spend the time. I don’t fault media for deciding to care more about their own personal play platform. Just as they probably don’t care that my interest in their work will fluctuate based on if they show some care in being accurate and fair in reporting.
Are we talking about the media or a small but loud minority on the internet?
Yes, the media. The mere notion that Xbox was more powerful than the PS5 was enough to make Jason Schreier to go on a Twitter rampage defending the honor of Sony. That wasn’t a neutral response. He was truly emotionally distraught.
If Phil actually tried to change Xbox fate or place in the industry, the media would react like that.
In the end any change will make people angry, it’s nature. That’s why Epic gets so much negativity. The reason Phil is liked, is because he doesn’t change anything.
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Where ever you go no the internet the xbox gets shit on!! It’s the trend!
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Yeah, you’re going to have to provide examples of Phil being disrespected because I’m not buying what you’re selling.
Because Sony is the current big dog in town the media dont want to get on the wrong side of them, and gaming forums know that the majority of the posters are Sony players, and so they know that the amount of posts and site visits is going to be more in a pro Sony environment than a Pro MS one. I said on Era that I thought Jason Shreier looked a bit unprofessional by trying to correct the negative press they got after the road to PS5 where the fanboys dreams.of 13tflops was crushed. He complained to the Mods and they deleted my post and permabanned me. Yet Digital Foundry are accused of shilling for MS and thats just accepted.
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The problem with this thread is that it is a statememt about all media when it is not. If there was a media bias, all of the members of the media would show that. That doesn’t exist.
Finding examples is just that, an example… Not the rule, thus the answer is no. Even when a member of the media who covers Xbox, Jez, tells you the same (and he even calls out outlets like IGN for doing console warring type articles), yall still don’t listen and he has more insight into how the media works more than any of us posting.
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I would have to agree with @zedox here. While there are examples like IGN’s shenanigans and specific people in media, I don’t think it’s a concerted effort media wide. Do I believe that Xbox gets slightly more unfair treatment due to MS’s very monopolistic/cutthroat past in media, yes, but again it falls on their are cases but it’s not a whole industry kind of thing.
I think the discussion should be the state of games journalism in general and how it’s arguably tabloid levels of bad in many cases.