For the record, the version of Cyberpunk is just enhanced BC. There is no real Next-Gen patch yet. Maybe they spiffed up the BC version because it is not the next-gen patch, so there is a fair-to-good chance it runs real good just because it’s an enhanced Xbox One X version and not native Series S|X.
1 Like
I meant, the outcome that Sony would still be ridiculously further ahead in the advancement of the SDK for PS5 in comparison to GDK, didn’t mean to imply that it would be exactly 1:1, that should kinda go without saying. To what extent it would’ve changed, we don’t know, but you can bet that first point still stands.
XSX will run XBOX Version at 30FPS
I think he is worried about the next gen update/version because from look like most of cross gen games have some issues on XSX hopefully it’s stable 60FPS without tearing
Next-gen version is probably not coming until later next year. They’re still working on Witcher 3 next-gen first.
2 Likes
But there’s a point where SDK advancements provide diminishing returns.
We don’t know which state the GDK is in, all we know is that in June (so 5 months ago) it was still in a state where the apis were not as performant as expected, for many reasons (for example they implemented in a certain way that’s easier to implement or debug, but there’s performance impact), or not supporting a feature that increases performance.
For giving one example on Xbone: Xbone didn’t supported async compute until months after launch. Without async compute compute work was scheduled alongside graphical workloads instead of benefiting from the compute scheduler (that fills the usage gaps in graphical workloads with compute). This alone provides 10-30% extra performance, and was something that PS4 supported from months before release, and on Xbone only after launch.
Bringing the examples on SX. The documentation mentions some api calls passing values by copy, instead of reference (including for RT, so some operations instead of just passing the address of the existing RT acceleration structures copies them), which also impacts performance.
The documentation also says that some apis were doing something inefficiently but made it easier to debug… And not for some exoteric stuff, even some basic ones like input reading or clearing a memory buffer. This was needed because they started the development environment for scratch in a way to unify Xbox and PC development. That’s something Sony didn’t had to deal with the PS5 because they kept the same environment and added new apis that expose the Ps5 gpu features.
Not to mention there is stuff it’s still not supported on GDK. For example mouse and keyboard support on xbox (This one is actually funny, because they first added support through UWP, then, when pretty much the universe abandoned UWP they added to XDK, and now they need to add again to gamecore, when UWP was created so stuff like this wouldn’t happen and they would only have to add support once. VR is likely the same, as it was added back them through UWP)
I don’t know when Ms decided to change it either. The original plan was to continue to use the XDK for around 2 years and only move to GDK then, but internally something changed and they decided to have GDK as the “main” development platform right at launch, so they would be coming in hot already, and coupled with covid that sounds like a massive wrench at their plans.
5 Likes
Which interview was it again from this year where Phil spoke about this? I need it for another forum. There’s a discussion going on there as well.
1 Like
Looking at the game files files it seems that there are 2 possible ways to support SX right now.
- XDK (same devkit as Xbone/X) in XboxGen9Aware mode. Which seems to be in BC mode but aware of SX so it can change some settings and offer higher quality access (Seems to be what many games are doing to support SX with minimal effort)
- GDK targeting Anaconda or Lockhart. Which is seemingly the mode that supports all the console features such as RT.
I think Cyberpunk will launch in mode 1 (there were some differences like increased SSR settings on SX, which is not possible in pure BC) and later receive a patch to a version compiled with GDK and having more SX features like RT
Definitely appreciate the perspectives guys, thanks for the responses.
1 Like
I’m expecting the next gen upgrade to be ready before they release the first expansion for Cyberpunk. The Witcher 3 should be AFTER Cyberpunk 2077 because it’s the older game. Concentrating on the newer release should be a far bigger priority in my opinion.
1 Like
MS waited for Full RDNA 2 chipsets to be released. This lead to the SDK’s being finalized later than Sony’s.
Cross-gen stuff not having Xbox as the clearcut winner isn’t shocking.
Plus, Ubisoft isn’t well known for optimizing their games seeing as how Valhalla and Legion even struggle on PC.
3 Likes
And I keep telling this to folks on another forum. And I said DF said it several times, I mentioned that “insiders” have spoken about it as well and also Phil. And the replies I get are “Oh because Uncle Phil says it, it’s true” or… “DF, those are some tech guys, for all we know they just yell some stuff.” and I’m like dude really.
Common sense and logic goes right out of the window.
1 Like
Hey, that’s my avatar, he belongs to me !
I wouldn’t call badly optimized because their games do push a lot. The world is very dense, with multiple npcs reacting to the environment and some expensive routines in all of them (they use the same ik animation system as the player on all npcs and they can have fights with a dozen npcs at the same time)
What I feel they should do is offer more options for PC that they make on consoles. Their games on consoles usually have some settings lower than low PC settings, which is not even possible to configure without messing with the files (See Alex’s video on WD Legion, and compare to benchmarks. A 2060S goes from being unplayable at 4k to surpassing SX with the same settings applied).
Dynamic resolution would do wonders on Pc as well but strangely enough they don’t support it.
Dunno if they do it on purpose, but at console settings the game would be much more performant.
Oh shit so basically devs had the first proper release of gdk in june 2020… no wonder halo infinite demoed on a pc
2 Likes
Its not like sony have no issues.
No VRR, no expandable ssd storage, coil whine, missing OS features etc
3 Likes
They were heavily critical on the game on the XSX. It was even put forward that the XSX version should drop the resolution even further below 1440p, and therefore lower than the PS5 version, so make it run better. Rewatch the video. You don’t use the language they did to describe minor issues. And to this time, I haven’t heard anything about Ubisoft patching it to fix the issues.
1 Like
Yeah that is a nuanced point that most aren’ getting. If the dev tools are behind pre-Covid (which they were), that amplifies the issue. If they were on track pre-Covid (as PS5’s were), it isn’t an issue.
I really isn’ something that is too debatable at this point. The dev tools are also gonna be why so many XSX games got delayed so last minute and why graphics features like RT weren’t gonna be ready for release in some titles (Halo, Watch Dogs came down to he wire, XSS version of DMC, Observer Redux, etc). Literally all available information/evidence points in only 1 direction.
1 Like
It’s arguable that Sony kind of lucked out at launch. Either that or they had amazing risk management. Their two lead games are a remake of an already great game and an expansion to a great game. In both these cases, especially demon’s souls a lot of the work was already done. The small scale of demon’s souls environments allowed bluepoint to push the visuals to 11. The Dev kit being an expansion of the PS4 kit reduces the work that Sony had to do and made development of crossgen games easier. With a massive game like halo infinite and a Dev kit designed to allow development across Xbox and pc Microsoft tried for something much more ambitious but came up short at least partially due to the pandemic.
Sony has had their own problems on the hardware and UI side of things for similar reasons. They went for something ambitious and missed the mark. I’m quite sure the pandemic had an impact there too. It must have effected testing.
This is quite a sidetrack from the question of acv’s performance but its quite interesting to consider how one thing explains so many of the events around the launch of the series x. Why was there so little footage of games on series X and s before launch? Why was Halo infinite underwhelming graphically? Why have so many indie games that would have propped up the series X launch been delayed? Why are multiplatform launch games on Series X underwhelming?
The Dev kit only been finalized in June answers all these questions at least partially. If you want to talk about Microsoft mistakes, it seems this might be the biggest one.
1 Like
Its a nice little short term marketing win for sony but in the long run more advanced is better. Hopefully the frame rate dips are fixed though s they do effect gameplay. Im personally not to fussed about ubisoft games but I hope cyberpunk does not have performance issues. I do hope these issues dont last long, because the longer they last it becomes more of a problem. If we are still seeing these issues on the seriesX and not on the PS5 6 months from now im not going to be happy.
https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1329478837411991552?s=21
Stop taking it so personally. They are simply offering solutions to the games issues.
1 Like