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[Jeans]

Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 Unreal Engine Retrospective | State of Unreal 2025

[Staffy]

@Jeans

But we are already there. Look at DOOM The Dark Ages, Indiana Jones or Cyberpunk 2077 on Series X. We already have this kind of performance, just not with all the bells and whistles from UE5. Now that the engine have matured we see the real potential.

I heard that the jump from 5.0 to 5.6 is as big as going from UE 4 to UE 5. Performance as always been the problem with UE 5.0 and now we get the optimizations that it needed for good console performances. At least that’s how I see it.

Yeah, but we’ll see how the final version of the game looks on base consoles. We shouldn’t forget about Witcher 3 early footage/trailers and also Cyberpunk. But I want to believe, because this looks awesome.

Wonder if this could potentially mean Sony has the marketing on this, Witcher 3 was quite associated with MS/Xbox. On the other hand, it’s a UE5 tech demo showing.

[Sparda3g]

https://x.com/gematsu/status/1929914191814525261?s=46&t=O_AGT9SEnlptKOF_2SxtqQ

[Jeans]

@Staffy

Yeah, but we’ll see how the final version of the game looks on base consoles. We shouldn’t forget about Witcher 3 early footage/trailers and also Cyberpunk. But I want to believe, because this looks awesome.

Wonder if this could potentially mean Sony has the marketing on this, Witcher 3 was quite associated with MS/Xbox. On the other hand, it’s a UE5 tech demo showing.

I’m playing Cyberpunk 2077, so that’s why I’m talking about it. I’m playing in 60 FPS and it is an absolutely stunning game, even as a crossgen title.

The only thing UE 5 needed is optimizations. It wasn’t until recently.

Even Expedition 33 runs super smooth because of that. And I think it’s UE 5.4.

I saw people praising 5.6 as the leap the engine needed in terms of performance. I believe them. That’s why most studios are switching to Unreal.

Even Obsidian praised the ease of use and fast iterative environment of the engine and you see how gorgeous the Outer Worlds 2 looks compared to the first one.

I’m not particularly pro Unreal or Epic but I see how it is going.

[Jeans]

RoboCop: Rogue City - Unfinished Business | Character Intro Video

[Staffy]

@Jeans

I’m playing Cyberpunk 2077, so that’s why I’m talking about it. I’m playing in 60 FPS and it is an absolutely stunning game, even as a crossgen title.

The only thing UE 5 needed is optimizations. It wasn’t until recently.

Even Expedition 33 runs super smooth because of that. And I think it’s UE 5.4.

I saw people praising 5.6 as the leap the engine needed in terms of performance. I believe them. That’s why most studios are switching to Unreal.

Even Obsidian praised the ease of use and fast iterative environment of the engine and you see how gorgeous the Outer Worlds 2 looks compared to the first one.

I’m not particularly pro Unreal or Epic but I see how it is going.

I truly want to believe, but I’m definitely keeping my expectations in check. It’s good to hear about all these improvements, that’s always good but I have a hard time believing the final game will look like this and be at 60fps on the base consoles. But holy shit do I hope it will be. We gotta keep in mind also that they don’t call it gameplay here, and it’s a tech demo. But hey, we’ll see.

[Knottian (Daniel)]

@Jeans

just not with all the bells and whistles

That’s literally why we aren’t, in fact, there yet… which is my point, don’t expect Witcher 4 to look like this at launch, as features are going to be disabled or turned off to make a stable launch… just like we see with those games mentioned. Cyberpunk isn’t UE at all, either so why was this mentioned at all? I’m not talking about graphical fidelity overall, I’m specifically talking about how Epic has a well-documented history of their tech demos featuring technical features that often never see the light of day in any game, let alone with all the UE5 features turned on (until we see something actually playable with all features enabled, running 60 FPS, we aren’t by definition there).

I’m also not saying that there haven’t been devs that have greatly pushed the engine… there are, ironically they’re all Xbox studios for the most part, but those biggest improvements have taken a lot of additional backend forking/lifting, and even then all the features aren’t even present

[Jeans]

@Knottian

… stable launch… just like we see with those games mentioned. Cyberpunk isn’t UE at all, either so why was this mentioned at all? I’m not talking about graphical fidelity overall, I’m specifically talking about how Epic has a well-documented history of their tech demos featuring technical features that often never see the light of day in any game, let alone with all the UE5 features turned on (until we see something actually playable with all features enabled, running 60 FPS, we aren’t by definition there). I’m also not saying that there haven’t been devs that have greatly pushed the engine… there are, ironically they’re all Xbox studios for the most part, but those biggest improvements have taken a lot of additional backend forking/lifting, and even then all the features aren’t even present

OK, yeah I get that we should be careful about what is shown to us, tech demos are, well, tech demos. And I don’t want all games to use all the UE techs because that depends on the game and what the devs want to do, but we have recent example of games running better and better with some GI and RT features even reaching 60 FPS at decent resolution. AA solution is also improving in that regard.

I think what we saw in this tech demo, we are already close to reaching that right now on console.

These tech demos were insane 3-4 years ago but now we saw it’s possible for games to reach that in real time. The tree branches thing or cloth physics and muscle deformation are just optimizations for example.

Edit: Ok so now we get the “it’s a Tech Demo not real hardware PS5” stuff coming out, so I guess @Knottian you’re right. I should keep my expectations in check !

[Knottian (Daniel)]

@Jeans

…us, tech demos are, well, tech demos. And I don’t want all games to use all the UE techs because that depends on the game and what the devs want to do, but we have recent example of games running better and better with some GI and RT features even reaching 60 FPS at decent resolution. AA solution is also improving in that regard. I think what we saw in this tech demo, we are already close to reaching that right now on console. These tech demos were insane 3-4 years ago but now we saw it’s possible for games to reach that in real time. The tree branches thing or cloth physics and muscle deformation are just optimizations for example. Edit: Ok so now we get the “it’s a Tech Demo not real hardware PS5” stuff coming out, so I guess @Knottian you’re right. I should keep my expectations in check !

I agree with most of the pre-edit portion, but most of that has also been with bespoke engines and not UE5 (which is notoriously a poor performer, on console and PC). I genuinely hope we see optimizations that improve its otherwise disappointing overall performance when pairing some of the additional features.

Now for the W4 demo at hand… I knew it was a tech demo from the get go because CDPR announced it as such at the UE keynote, which made the erroneous and irresponsible reporting from people like Geoff even more hilarious (read: stupid, why are we on the dumbest timeline for everything?!).

[Jeans]

@Knottian

I agree with most of the pre-edit portion, but most of that has also been with bespoke engines and not UE5 (which is notoriously a poor performer, on console and PC). I genuinely hope we see optimizations that improve its otherwise disappointing overall performance when pairing some of the additional features.

Now for the W4 demo at hand… I knew it was a tech demo from the get go because CDPR announced it as such at the UE keynote, which made the erroneous and irresponsible reporting from people like Geoff even more hilarious (read: stupid, why are we on the dumbest timeline for everything?!).

Yeah, I hate when they push for showing a branded controller when it’s obviously not running the game on the console hardware. And it’s always PlayStation doing it, it seems. I guess they are still partners with Unreal for these demos.

[Kals_Els]

@Jeans

I’m playing Cyberpunk 2077, so that’s why I’m talking about it. I’m playing in 60 FPS and it is an absolutely stunning game, even as a crossgen title.

The only thing UE 5 needed is optimizations. It wasn’t until recently.

Even Expedition 33 runs super smooth because of that. And I think it’s UE 5.4.

I saw people praising 5.6 as the leap the engine needed in terms of performance. I believe them. That’s why most studios are switching to Unreal.

Even Obsidian praised the ease of use and fast iterative environment of the engine and you see how gorgeous the Outer Worlds 2 looks compared to the first one.

I’m not particularly pro Unreal or Epic but I see how it is going.

There’s no doubt UE5 is pretty good, but the sacrifices made to image quality on Expedition 33, Avowed, RoboCop and so many others on consoles shows that there’s still more work to be done. Because there’s always this constant shimmer effect that goes with the reconstruction, that produces an overall distracting and ugly effect.

I don’t know if that’s UE5 upscaler, or FSR but if that comes into effect on any future games to maintain 60fps with the more detailed environments, those game will always be plagued by those over-the-top shimmering effects on consoles. I just hope that we can get a better solution that doesn’t rely on needing to have the newest tech possible to help.

[Joe_Sinister1 (Joe_Sinister)]

@Searsy82

And after all the internet phony tears about Tango, no one bought it on PS either. Last numbers that were shared it sold 143k copies on PS.

Proving that internet outrage is generally a performative joke.

100% always has been. Moment I finished Hi Fi Rush I knew Xbox MS had something special on their hands,(IP with likeable characters that got tons of fanart and could have possibly gotten bigger with sequels merch and maybe a Netflix show) so naturally they needed to get rid of it because we can’t have nice things. Glad to see they weren’t closed down for good. I’m sure MS will likely give back TEW IP, not like the’re planning to do anything with it. Hi Fi will be with IP like Gravity Rush ( similarly miss handled by Sony )where a publisher had something really cool and squandered it

Also WTF happened to the alleged “physical Edition” from Limited Run?

[Fiendflag]

@Staffy

I truly want to believe, but I’m definitely keeping my expectations in check. It’s good to hear about all these improvements, that’s always good but I have a hard time believing the final game will look like this and be at 60fps on the base consoles. But holy shit do I hope it will be. We gotta keep in mind also that they don’t call it gameplay here, and it’s a tech demo. But hey, we’ll see.

From the updated Eurogamer article:

UPDATE 4:28pm UK: CD Projekt Red has confirmed to Eurogamer the demonstration in the Unreal livestream was a tech demo played live and running at 60fps on a base PS5, although this isn’t meant to represent a final version of The Witcher 4.

“This tech demo runs at 60fps on PS5, and that’s the performance we’re aiming for in The Witcher 4,” said a representative from the studio. “It’s still too early to confirm exact specs for every platform, but we’re working closely with Epic to create an open-world experience that’s both beautiful to look at and smooth to play.”

Further, when asked if this tech demo could give unrealistic expectations on how The Witcher 4 will perform at launch, given The Witcher 3’s initial performance, the studio responded: “It’s important to keep in mind that this tech demo isn’t meant to represent The Witcher 4 - it’s a showcase of the tools we’re developing together with Epic Games. That means specific visuals like character models and environments may be different to The Witcher 4.”

So yeah like @Knottian already said don’t expect anything anywhere close to that in the final game and especially on a freakin’ base PS5, it’s CDPR after all and we all know what BS they pulled off with Cyberpunk 2077 (and with Witcher 3 before that…) so yeah we should definitely keep our expectations in check.

[Meister10000]

Curious question, feel free to discuss among yourselfs:

Should there be more than one game engine to compete with the likes of Unreal Engine in some way, shape or form? I know Unity is still used but i also saw that it seems like Nvidia is doing something as well so am curious about what people think about this.

If it was up to me in some part i would try and have both Sony and Microsoft to allow people to use the decima and Id Tech if possible, cause i think it would make a good amount of money and it could allow for new talent to try an different engine all together, but that’s just me in this regard, you are free to argue against or not, just my two cents on the matter.

[Hue]

@Meister10000

Should there be more than one game engine to compete with the likes of Unreal Engine

Yes there should. I’m not sure who would these days.

Historically it was always id Tech and CryEngine pushing the barriers.

For a while Valve was busy with Source and EA with Dice but not so much anymore.

I always thought Ubisoft’s Snowdrop engine was quite impressive but it seems they are moving away from it.

EDIT: I should probably also mention Havok (owned by Microsoft) and RAGE. I wouldn’t be surprised if the RAGE engine is commercialised after GTA releases.

It’s a shame that REDengine is being abandoned for Unreal.

[Jeans]

Minecraft x adidas Adventurers add-on

Why ?

[Haven (Victor)]

@Hue

Yes there should. I’m not sure who would these days.

Historically it was always id Tech and CryEngine pushing the barriers.

For a while Valve was busy with Source and EA with Dice but not so much anymore.

I always thought Ubisoft’s Snowdrop engine was quite impressive but it seems they are moving away from it.

True. Competing today requires making the engine readily easy and available in schools and practically everywhere, having a dedicated team to help and respond to anything regarding the engine. I just think the investment to compete with UE is just not something that a lot of the competitors of the past are capable of. I do think though that in the future that might change as I don’t see some of this engine makers ever capitulating to UE. ID for one will stay with ID tech and I doubt COD would be shifting to UE anytime, Crytek will probably also keep pushing on, I’m hopeful they would get the investment or get acquired by a company interested in expanding the Cry engine.

[Hue]

@Haven

Crytek will probably also keep pushing on, I’m hopeful they would get the investment or get acquired by a company interested in expanding the Cry engine.

Yep, I keep expecting some form of acquisition of Crytek but it never happens. I was sure MS was going to do it at one point.

Imagine if MS owned the CryEngine in addition to id Tech, IW, Havok, Creation and ForzaTech etc. It would be a pretty awesome lineup.

On a side note Capcom’s RE engine is another possibility, again resourcing would likely be the biggest issue.

[Sparda3g]

https://x.com/ideafactoryintl/status/1929916493149434025?s=46&t=O_AGT9SEnlptKOF_2SxtqQ

Why can’t they stop supporting a dead platform?

[Jeans]

So I must say that I was a bit misguided. I watched the Witcher 4 tech demo again and now it reminds me of the Watch Dogs presentation. I can clearly see now that it’s too good to be running on current consoles. Too much geometry, perfect lighting, crowds and foliage density with insane draw distance running at 60 FPS is a pipe dream.

STALKER 2 and Expedition 33 are the two examples that are the closest to that kind of graphic fidelity but the scope of these games are not the same.

Still, if they can manage to do half of what they’ve shown, that would be great.