Xbox isn't leaving you behind - But it is moving forward

[pg2g]

@Resist

…but $500 plus $70 for a game (plus a subscription to an objectively inferior service) released a year later is enticing???

Whatever.

I think the assumption is that someone is a multi console owner or someone that wants to play both Playstation and Xbox games. In that scenario you could buy 2 consoles and play everything (and subscribe to Game Pass) or 1 console and play everything (and buy the games a year later).

I think in that scenario the value of Game Pass needs to make up for the purchase price of an additional console.

That said, the whole discussion relies on all games being cross platform which is a baseless assumption.

[Resist]

@pg2g

I think the assumption is that someone is a multi console owner or someone that wants to play both Playstation and Xbox games. In that scenario you could buy 2 consoles and play everything (and subscribe to Game Pass) or 1 console and play everything (and buy the games a year later).

I think in that scenario the value of Game Pass needs to make up for the purchase price of an additional console.

That said, the whole discussion relies on all games being cross platform which is a baseless assumption.

In this scenario they would be paying $500 for a console $70 for Sony exclusives, a subscription service, and then $70 for late MS port… It really doesn’t make sense. It makes MS and Sony money but it it’s not exactly enticing for a consumer in the long term (like two or so years ) as opposed to buying more than one console and gamepass.

[Zifnab]

I think it’s not only a question of growth, but xbox is also very vulnerable to a Steam console if Valve decides to take that step. It therefore makes sense for MS to pursue some kind of xbox + PC store strategy to get ahead of this and also increase their growth.

As for the multiplat releases, the key will of course be how many go to Switch/PS. If for example 20%-30% of 1st party titles eventually go multiplat, would people still pick up a PS6 instead? I guess it would depend a lot on the titles, but this would still leave many titles exclusive to xbox given how many studios MS now has.

And what if xbox allowed for PC gaming, and also subsidized their hardware via gamepass subscriptions? MS could for example have 2 subsidized SKUs that require a 1-2 year gamepass subscription (purchasable without gamepass but more expensive then):

• $500 - more powerful than PS6
• $300 to $400 - similar power to PS6

This would also bring people into the xbox/gamepass ecosystem from day 1, instead of them directly jumping into any pc store that’s available. The strategies MS has announced are fairly blurry, but I could imagine something along these lines having appeal.

[Guardian]

@SilentJay76

xCloud (I wish they’d kept that name) is fine on small screens like the Steam Deck or phones. On a big TV it depends somewhat on the game. Slime Rancher (slow gameplay, low resolution textures) was fine for me. But Forza Horizon 4 (fast, high-res) was a complete pixel mess.

I do hope they finally get out of beta with some proper tech upgrades in time for next gen. Because I’d actually love to go cloud-only.

I wonder how xcloud looks on those huge 4k Samsung TV’s

[SilentJay76]

@Guardian

I wonder how xcloud looks on those huge 4k Samsung TV’s

I’d imagine it’s used mostly by casual gamers without any direct comparison. So most people probably wouldn’t notice the image degradation in most games. Quality is probably similar to the Switch. (?)

Forza Horizon was an extreme example for me, where I’d consider it unplayable (or at least unenjoyable.) Other games looked fine, as long as you don’t compare them directly to the console output.

[nrXic]

I do think there needs to be a concern from Xbox gamers in regards to Microsoft chasing dollars, something that all “good” corporations do. The concern lies in looking for short-term gain at the expense of long-term health.

We’ve seen the ingenuity and passion that helped create and push the Xbox brand forward. But now we’re starting to see a lot of corporate Microsoft influencing Xbox.

There’s a difference between chasing trends and going to where the puck is going to be. Thus far Xbox has been going to where the puck is going to be. Game Pass is the obvious example but going multi-platform, originally just to PC, is also representative of that. They’re leading the charge and are creating trends, not following them.

But I am concerned about them following some trends going forward. The handheld move, which I think is absolutely necessary, is ultimately following a trend. In this case I don’t see it as a bad thing. But in the case of AI and the rumoured focus on AI with the next console, I truly hope it’s not some form of trying to get money for the Xbox division from Papa Microsoft.

When we compare PlayStation and Xbox hardware post-360, we see highly underutilized features from mega textures on the Xbox One to DX12U on the series consoles. If the new machine has a bunch of hardware that most machines don’t have, developers are not going to take advantage of it.

There’s just so much uncertainty at this point. It’s not necessarily a bad thing. It was like this prior to the Wii and the Switch with Nintendo. A bunch of rumors that seemed so wild to describe their new hardware. And not all the rumors were overwhelmingly positive, like the idea that the new hardware wasn’t much more powerful than the GameCube. How can a brand new next generation console ever survive when it’s hardware is similar to its previous generation? So we don’t see the whole picture and this uncertainty is leading to shaken faith in the brand.

So I don’t blame anyone with an overwhelmingly negative outlook and I don’t blame anyone with an overwhelmingly positive outlook. It could go either way.

I think one thing that we can all agree on is that Xbox over the last 10 years has created some fantastic products. The consoles are great, the controller gets even better, the games are getting better and more plentiful (even with missteps games like Sea of Thieves and Halo Infinite have become incredible titles), there is an exciting first party stable that will knock our socks off, and services like Game Pass offer an incredible value and have changed how we game.

So with all this in mind, the uncertainty and the recent track record, I’m leaning towards the more positive outlook. It’s just based on a bit of faith based on the recent track record.

My only real concern is that it could be the best thing to happen to console video games and people will still not check it out because of inherent biases and Xbox’s failure in marketing.

[lunanto]

You made a really good point. There are many adults for who in gaming, the limiting factor is time, not money. So for them, a Playstation console with potentially all games is way more enticing than Playstation + Xbox with Game Pass, simply because they wouldnt have time to play all of it has to offer.

[Ironfistchinmi]

@nrXic

When we compare PlayStation and Xbox hardware post-360, we see highly underutilized features from mega textures on the Xbox One to DX12U on the series consoles. If the new machine has a bunch of hardware that most machines don’t have, developers are not going to take advantage of it.

That’s largely what I think they’re leaning into AI for, to allow dev teams to take advantage of tech they don’t typically take time to implement.

Digital Foundry had a vid last year where they said, if they were Xbox, they’d be going around asking studios why they aren’t making use of certain features that would bring advantages to the Series consoles.

AI would definitely be a way to do this, so their push towards its inclusion should come as no surprise.

[nrXic]

@Ironfistchinmi

Digital Foundry had a vid last year where they said, if they were Xbox, they’d be going around asking studios why they aren’t making use of certain features that would bring advantages to the Series consoles.

I don’t want to beat up on Direct Foundry but the answer should be pretty apparent: It wouldn’t make sense to make a ground up on DirectX 12 Ultimate for only the Xbox Series consoles and DirectX 12U compatible video cards. That narrows your userbase down big time. It leaves out all the other video cards and consoles like the PS5.

When using features like Sampler Feedback and Mesh Shaders, you’re using features that you are designing your game engine around.

Personally the most disappointing thing is that Microsoft themselves never took advantage of these features. Pretty much for the same reason I’m guessing. Forza Motorsport works on older graphics cards like the 1060. IIRC mesh shaders are only available on the RTX 20 series and above. I could be wrong about this and I hope I am.

And if games have to be compatible for the PlayStation 5 then you’re not going to see any advantage being used. I would like to see Fable be a game that can only run on high-end cards or the Series consoles. I think nowadays we see people with compatible cards more so than we did in 2020 when video cards were pretty expensive.

[Swanlee]

At some point people are just going to have to decide if they like Xbox’s direction and either adapt to it or find something else.

Seriously the gaming community as a whole is a complete toxic dumpster fire, and while this was a pretty good safe haven for a bit even people here are flipping their shit and losing their minds and making it a pain in the ass to even try and engage.

Honestly if you don’t like the direction Xbox is headed , find something else as a hobby , it’s more than obvious EVERY platform holder is having to pivot to changing times. If you game on any console you are going to be faced with a different environment going forward. As a gamer you are going to have to adapt one way or another and drop the platform wars.

You will be ok, the world will be ok if you don’t like Xbox anymore but for the love of god just move on and allow the rest of us who still like Xbox to have a non toxic community to talk about gaming and Xbox in general without the doom and gloom, trolling and crap Xbox fans have had to put up with for a couple of decades now.

[Mort]

@Swanlee

…ple here are flipping their shit and losing their minds and making it a pain in the ass to even try and engage. Honestly if you don’t like the direction Xbox is headed , find something else as a hobby , it’s more than obvious EVERY platform holder is having to pivot to changing times. If you game on any console you are going to be faced with a different environment going forward. As a gamer you are going to have to adapt one way or another and drop the platform wars. You will be ok, the world will be ok if you don’t like Xbox anymore but for the love of god just move on and allow the rest of us who still like Xbox to have a non toxic community to talk about gaming and Xbox in general without the doom and gloom, trolling and crap Xbox fans have had to put up with for a couple of decades now.

I’m sorry that you think anyone here is being toxic, flipping their shit, losing their minds and making it a pain in the ass to even try to engage.

I think perhaps our definition of a toxic community differs a bit, but I don’t think this place is one.

[Swanlee]

@Mort

I’m sorry that you think anyone here is being toxic, flipping their shit, losing their minds and making it a pain in the ass to even try to engage.

I think perhaps our definition of a toxic community differs a bit, but I don’t think this place is one.

While not toxic like most of the other forums their does seem to be some vocal people that need to figure this stuff out on their own and for some reason are dealing with this in a way that is way way more serious then it needs to be.

Maybe this is a community side effect to the Activision purchase? 2 years of back and fourth and drama and now it’s over and things turned out ok Xbox got what they wanted it does seem like some in this community NEED the drama and would like to keep it going through EVERY little Xbox news item.

I also think some people really need to shed the console wars mentality. This is not a war these are companies producing products that you can choose to buy or not, it does not need to become a sports league where people keep score of the “winners” and “losers”

Xbox porting some games around isn’t losing anything to some of you even though people act like it. Xbox did not kill your dog by porting some games to the Ps5 and or Switch. I’ll be happy if owners of other consoles can fund sequels and more games for Xbox.

After the ABK drama I thought most of this crap would be over but it seems some community gamers are pretty addicted to the drama. I’d rather just play games and talk about it to a like minded community.

But lately you just have to wade through miles of dooming crap where you go to talk about Xbox and at times it’s just not mentally worth it. and every little bit of Xbox news just brings it all out again. This forum is MILES better then any other gaming forum in regards to Xbox but it is a shame that dooming and glooming did end up here even if its to a lesser extent then other places.

But as a whole it is getting tiring nearly everyday their seems to be a concerted effort for negative Xbox news to gain clicks which in turns riles up the community and start the doom cycle all over again.

[Visceron]

@Swanlee

…ple here are flipping their shit and losing their minds and making it a pain in the ass to even try and engage. Honestly if you don’t like the direction Xbox is headed , find something else as a hobby , it’s more than obvious EVERY platform holder is having to pivot to changing times. If you game on any console you are going to be faced with a different environment going forward. As a gamer you are going to have to adapt one way or another and drop the platform wars. You will be ok, the world will be ok if you don’t like Xbox anymore but for the love of god just move on and allow the rest of us who still like Xbox to have a non toxic community to talk about gaming and Xbox in general without the doom and gloom, trolling and crap Xbox fans have had to put up with for a couple of decades now.

Why does someone criticizing or even remotely questioning Xbox’s direction or business decisions AUTOMATICALLY mean someone is flipping their shit and being doom and gloom?? Isn’t that ironically as extreme as the group you are telling to “get a different hobby”? If people aren’t drinking the green kool-aid, they are trolling, console warring, etc?? How does that work?

Do you want XboxEra to be the antithesis of OtherEra?

OE: Everything Xbox=bad. XE: Everything Xbox=good.

Two different sides of the same lame coin imo. Where is the room for being objective??

[Swanlee]

@Visceron

Why does someone criticizing or even remotely questioning Xbox’s direction or business decisions AUTOMATICALLY mean someone is flipping their shit and being doom and gloom?? Isn’t that ironically as extreme as the group you are telling to “get a different hobby”? If people aren’t drinking the green kool-aid, they are trolling, console warring, etc?? How does that work?

Do you want XboxEra to be the antithesis of OtherEra?

OE: Everything Xbox=bad. XE: Everything Xbox=good.

Two different sides of the same lame coin imo. Where is the room for being objective??

How about some balance? Not every news article and game being ported means the END OF XBOX!!!

People have seemingly lost their collective minds and the media and fans of other consoles are taking advantage of it to further poke the community for it’s own entertainment value and revenue due to clicks.

That’s what I mean by Toxic, media click bait articles to stir up crap in the Xbox community and the community seems more then willing to eat it up and start the doom spiral off of it.

At what point do people see the changing direction of the entire gaming industry and learn to just deal with changing times instead of eating each other alive? At some point people either need to accept it or move on.

[Mort]

@Swanlee

…ox. After the ABK drama I thought most of this crap would be over but it seems some community gamers are pretty addicted to the drama. I’d rather just play games and talk about it to a like minded community. But lately you just have to wade through miles of dooming crap where you go to talk about Xbox and at times it’s just not mentally worth it. and every little bit of Xbox news just brings it all out again. This forum is MILES better then any other gaming forum in regards to Xbox but it is a shame that dooming and glooming did end up here even if its to a lesser extent then other places. But as a whole it is getting tiring nearly everyday their seems to be a concerted effort for negative Xbox news to gain clicks which in turns riles up the community and start the doom cycle all over again.

I honestly think you are overreacting. There is legitimate concern about something many of us care about and I’m not sure the somewhat aggressive labeling of everyone as toxic is helping shaping the discussion into what you claim to want.

I also don’t think projecting the overall toxicity in the broader gaming community and media onto people here in this community is very constructive.

This is a forum, people will have different opinions on a wide range of things. It’s normal. As long as it is civil, proper discussions can lead to a lot of good things. I know I’ve learned a lot here, and even adjusted my stance on several things after seeing different viewpoints.

[Widey85]

Great article

It strikes me that Xbox’s review of their strategic direction splits their own users more than almost any outside groups (let’s face it, the gaming media is mostly negative anyway).

Even in the XboxEra staff we have some who are either sanguine about it or slightly down on it, and others who are fiercely in favour of it - and the same goes for the community, we’ve got everything from “if you don’t like it, screw you and sell your Xbox!” to “I’m selling my Xbox, screw you!”.

The overly-evangelical fanboys are almost as tiring as the complete doom-and-gloom naysayers - even a hint of questioning the messiah Phil and you’re a heretic who should be shunned and must leave Team Green - while the latter yes can get you down a bit.

I was concerned by the initial reports, probably mostly by Starfield as I’d gone into it hoping for a Mass Effect meets Skyrim game and instead spent 100 hours (some of which I did really enjoy) looking for a game that got near the hype put on it (which was likely an unfair expectation that built up based on the poor first-party output up until then) - and was a bit annoyed that it seemed PS players would get the game + DLC + fixes and might get a better experience than I’d paid a significant sum for.

But in truth, unlike many who worry about their digital libraries I don’t often replay games outside maybe Mass Effect, the odd Forza Horizon or Halo, so I’m pretty middle-of-the-road - I generally get both consoles each generation but go Xbox first, prefer the controller and Game Pass and dislike Sony’s arrogance, so I want Xbox to always be around and they’ll always be my favourite.

More games going multi-platform doesn’t really affect me I can see how it might impact console sales and therefore third-party support so welcome innovations such as a handheld, new tech or PC stores on Xbox (which has me really hyped if it happens as I’m so tired of the PC gaming arms race), and I can see the rationale.

While I’m guess a little disappointed Xbox didn’t wait to see how a big marketing push around CoD etc. may have moved the needle, I can understand they probably see the majority of consumers have already chosen PS5 so it’s probably not going to - so instead they need to seek out pastures new whether that’s widening access or some more multi-platform releases, as clearly the “console war” is unlikely to ever go their way so it’s better to grow the market instead like Nintendo did with the Wii or smartphones did.

I guess my point is, like many in the middle I’m in “wait and see” mode - I’m not delighted by everything that’s happening, but I understand it and don’t think it’s the end of Xbox, instead I’m intrigued to see what the next few years bring in games, hardware and strategy.

And for those of us in the middle, the fanatical “don’t you dare say anything bad!” lot are almost as much of a downer or causes a feeling of “cba to reply, it’ll just end in an argument” as the “Xbox is doomed, prepare for the Ice Age!” lot that can leave you questioning the strategy…

[Swanlee]

@Mort

I honestly think you are overreacting. There is legitimate concern about something many of us care about and I’m not sure the somewhat aggressive labeling of everyone as toxic is helping shaping the discussion into what you claim to want.

I also don’t think projecting the overall toxicity in the broader gaming community and media onto people here in this community is very constructive.

This is a forum, people will have different opinions on a wide range of things. It’s normal. As long as it is civil, proper discussions can lead to a lot of good things. I know I’ve learned a lot here, and even adjusted my stance on several things after seeing different viewpoints.

Probably best then for me to step away and let the community work itself out if it ever does.

It is just utterly tiring and exhausting reading all the back and fourth doom and gloom and we’re gone, and we’re back like a feedback loop and then a devastating gloom in the future each time any game is announced to be ported it’s the end of the world.

I hope the Xbox community does eventually gets its head on right and stops feeding into the negative news cycle that never seems to go away for Xbox, It’s not even the actual NEWS that is negative just the reactions to EVERYTHNG related to Xbox.

[Doncabesa (Jesse Norris)]

I feel like none of you are actually having discussions with each other, instead pointing to extremists who aren’t in this thread (or most on the forums). Just talk to each other and stop feeling wrapped up in people’s opinions about others.

[Mort]

@Swanlee

Probably best then for me to step away and let the community work itself out if it ever does.

It is just utterly tiring and exhausting reading all the back and fourth doom and gloom and we’re gone, and we’re back like a feedback loop and then a devastating gloom in the future each time any game is announced to be ported it’s the end of the world.

I hope the Xbox community does eventually gets its head on right and stops the negative news cycle that never seems to go away, it’s not even the actual NEWS that is negative just the reactions to EVERYTHNG related to Xbox.

No, don’t step away. I know it’s hard to not let things get to you, trust me, but I’m convinced we can all have a positive influence on each other. Even if we don’t agree on everything, we all (probably) share the same love for games and that won’t change.

[Widey85]

@Mort

No, don’t step away. I know it’s hard to not let things get to you, trust me, but I’m convinced we can all have a positive influence on each other. Even if we don’t agree on everything, we all (probably) share the same love for games and that won’t change.

Agreed, I might have clashed a little with @Swanlee in the past over what I considered inflammatory language, but I’ve often found I agree with their opinion on numerous other threads, particularly around games or some of the rubbish the gaming media comes out with - @Swanlee the conversation here would be pretty boring if we all agreed all the time and you definitely add other viewpoints that I’d not have though of.

@Doncabesa

I feel like none of you are actually having discussions with each other, instead pointing to extremists who aren’t in this thread (or most on the forums). Just talk to each other and stop feeling wrapped up in people’s opinions about others.

I’m probably pretty guilty of this, even though I try to stay matter-of-fact to avoid being argumentative I do probably read too much into other people’s posts and see inflammatory language where there’s just passionate debate.

Truth is if we all agreed with each other it’d be pretty boring, and others that disagree with us can provide new evidence or points of view so it’s really valuable - I’d probably still be on a few other gaming sites finding the Xbox strategy change a “throwing in the towel” moment if I’d not come here and had my opinion changed…