in the 360 gen, Microsoft was able to disrupt and the PS3 only outsold it by around 5 million. I think issue is Microsoft squandered all of their momentum they had built with the 360 with the Xbox One. However, it’s been almost 10 years since Phil has taken over, and I think they’ve squandered the global appeal of the xbox brand. I think this is the gen to build momentum heading into next gen. I feel Microsoft just needs to do little things like improve marketing and localization, and let the games do the talking. Also, I think they need to find a way to gain mass appeal and differentiate themselves from Sony. I think they have ways to do that by being the home for western RPGs because they have the studios and I could see that being the genre that gamers crave
yeah, Spain, but apparently Microsoft is doing awful there. I am not even talking about sales, but they’re doing stuff like using Spanish (mexican) instead of Spain’s. That’s a big no-no in that market because they don’t like that type of Spanish.
The thing is, all of these games are on PC too, so a lot of people will just stick with or go for PC. But for sure there are people that don’t want a PC and go for Xbox. Yeah, Xbox One has ruined a lot, jesus.
Agreed. The hardware and software staff indeed deserve better. I honestly don’t know what to say about the chip shortage either, I kinda doubt that’s still an issue for them. We can’t do much other than keep supporting Xbox, buying their games and hoping things pick up. Cannot imagine they are too happy with this. Even if Europe isn’t exactly Xbox minded, there are plenty fans.
We can’t do much about it, other than hoping it picks up again.
You know, at the end of the day we as gamers probably shouldn’t care that much about it. MS is all in on gaming, big time. As long as they keep Xbox the console, and all the other options they provide we should be good. My only concern would be if it doesn’t really pick up, that some studios might decide it’s not worth it to bring games to Xbox. But that’s probably not something I should worry about.
Thankfully that doesn’t seem to happen often either, except for some Asian games but I’ve accepted that we probably won’t be getting every single (good) Asian game that PS and Switch do get. And some indie titles, but that goes for PS too, with some exceptions like Kena.
Always thought that was weird as here in Quebec, while we do prefer dubs from our area of the world (doesn’t affect my family as we listen to everything in English), most people I think don’t have an issue when it’s dubbed in France as I believe a lot of French dubs, especially games, are made there. I might be wrong on that one but I’ve never heard anyone complain about it.
My wife’s Mexican though and I’ll be honest, when it comes to Spanish, I prefer the way theirs sounds vs the one from Spain.
The way I see that is that the issue is/was broader than just console sales. Series seems about what Xbox One was, but has like, 10x the Asian game support, because MS started reaching out to those developers again, and started trying to get their own audience into those games with GP and marketing deals and stuff. The Wii U got a Yakuza game before Xbox ever did even and we know how that console sold! (though ironically they never gave it another try on Switch lol)
And also related to console sales, even in the 360 era, there were devs who did not bother with it who still don’t. NIS for example never supported 360, Gust (Atelier devs) didn’t. Square skipping is probably the only one that “matters”, but that isn’t completely related to console sales either because they were also skipping STEAM with major games!
I would probably say that smaller devs who don’t do simultaneous global releases (English version coming much later than JP release) are the ones you could probably cross off from Xbox releases though. In those cases it’s not hard to see why Xbox would not be a priority for the devs. Maybe the team they are building there can help change that? Will take some time though.
Starfield wasn’t a 10. That’s just judging by most metrics (player retention, metascore/user score, influencer sentiments, online chatter about the game, award nominations, etc). It 's fallen behind Skyrim in player numbers on Steam already. MS needs to release a few legitimate big 9-10s (Skyrim-level) with huge marketing pushes alongside them before we can conclude anything.
That said, this “lost cause” attitude I’ve been seeing online doesn’t sit right with me. First of all, how do people think PS and Nintendo got so entrenched in people’s minds in those regions in the first place? It didn’t just magically happen overnight, along releasing well-liked products, they have been engaging in constant and effective targeted marketing every generation.
Yeah the 3:2 ratio is roughly where the data falls on. I don’t know why you’re saying “they tried in the past, they know it’s pointless”. How was it pointless, when they had a 40% market share? Only being outsold 3:2 in Europe was a phenomenal success for Xbox when the PS2 had like a 90% market share in Europe. There is very little excuse for this half-assed marketing for a company of MS’s wealth. The whole point of marketing is not necessarily only to beat your competition, but just fundamentally to get your product out there, get more users, and grow and maintain a healthy and enthusiastic userbase. The Xbox leadership at the time knew this, and IMO, there were greatly rewarded for it. They enjoyed very competitive market share in mainland Europe, had millions and millions more users and fans, and had actually healthy online communities for multiplayer.
France had a 360: 40% / Ps3: 60% ratio. If we ignore the messiness that was the Xbox One launch, MS should have continued nurturing and been aggressive in the market, but the Xbox leadership grew timid while Sony didn’t, resulting in the XBO:20%/PS4: 80% ratio in most of mainland Europe.
I’m really hoping they start being aggressive with their marketing like in OG Xbox/360 era. It makes no sense that MS that can spend billions acquiring studios to bolster its console and subscription service, but can’t even spend a few hundred millions on proper advertisement campaigns for them.
The thing is that Starfield and any big game that releases not on PlayStation becomes a target. People keep playing down the fact that a third place console in sales is easy for people to find issues in their games because they know majority of the market isn’t going to play it.
Part of how much a game grabs the mindshare is not so much down to reviews - majority of reviewers gave Starfield a 9 or 10 score - but down to how many people are excited for it.
The online meta commentary will always basically dunk on or ignore Xbox games to a large degree.
People cite the last few PS3 years but again ignore the factors that really contributed to it besides Sony finally cranking up their first party machinery. Xbox had basically stopped investing in first and second party traditional stuff to focus on Kinect. Kinect broke sales records but the shift meant the core gamer started to look elsewhere.
The difference now is that Sony who are always the dominant brand have the mindshare of the core even when they aren’t making much of anything. Microsoft have a very good share of that too but the issue is much of the core will play their games on PC. So Xbox as a machine has much less attention in the core. This then translates into wider media and market perceptions and we sit where we do.
But fundamentally a string of amazing games won’t necessarily change any of that because the part of the market that wants to play all the best games either has an xbox or a PC. This is the bit people are kind of ignoring. I don’t think they have an issue with core mindshare. It’s their console that does. And that means that it’s hard to do what PS3 did because there is no big conversation shift to ‘wow everyone needs an xbox to play this game’ because that isn’t the case.
The point about player retention seems disingenuous. Starfield is still in top 10 on Xbox Live after almost 3 months. I think that’s the only single player game to achieve such a feat over the last decade or so.
Regardless, the game has not been a seismic event, that’s for sure.
The 3:2 was heavily caused by UK’s 360 performance. I take your point about France, I never knew it was as close there, however, most of the time in (mainland Europe) they have been getting there ass kicked all the way back to the OG xbox.
‘They know it’s pointless’ because at this stage, PS is about as firmly entrenched in the minds of gamers in EU as it’s ever been. MS have tried COD, and fifa marketing during the XBox One days and that didn’t move the needle, at all.
In Europe, the die has been cast, the battle has been lost, so they are spending resources elsewhere and I don’t blame them for that.
I haven’t heard that this is an Xbox problem specifically, though PS is probably better just considering the market positions. I’ve more heard it happens in general where developers just consider it “good enough” since they are using Mexican Spanish for the US market anyway.
Xbox isn’t doing that bad in Spain if you consider that this gen is has MS supporting PC and Steam much more than previous gens.
I had actually already factored out the UK’s performance in the 40% ratio. With the UK, the ratio was roughly 360: 42% / PS3: 58%. Without the UK, it’s 37% (I did round but very close to 40%)
Europe+UK:
360: 25.8 million
PS3: 34.5 million
Mainland Europe only:
360: 16.7 million
PS3: 28.4 million
Germany, the 2nd biggest console market in mainland Europe had 360: 36%~38% / PS3: 62-64% (depending on source)
360: 2.9 million /
PS3: 4.7 million
Source 1.
360: 2.7 million /
PS3: 4.7 million Source 2
I showed the biggest market there already, which was France. Things were really not that bad in mainland Europe.
Again, it doesn’t matter if they won’t ever beat PS5 there. My whole point is that if you want to gain users, which is obviously what MS wants, then regardless of how the competition is doing, you gotta put an effort and market. They can go spend resources elsewhere, fine, but again, where else should they spend it on? Europe is the 2nd biggest market.
The 360 was priced very competitively. I just checked through my Amazon orders dating way back, i.e. I paid 239 euros for the Xbox 360 in 2008 (the one with a 60gb hard drive).
Point being: price matters. In fact IMO it’s everything. Unfortunately the Series S is viewed as too weak compared to a PS5, thus probably not a desirable alternative. The Series X meanwhile had a price increase up to 550 euros this year. So I’m not surprised to see sales are bad.
People can talk about marketing, localization or whatever else, but for me there’s one real reason ‘why’ Xbox is not doing so well in terms of hardware sales in Europe right now: the price of the console, namely the Series X which is the actual rival of the PS5 in terms of specs. Games aren’t the biggest issue IMO.
