The Bethesda Three Game Juggling Act Argument Thread

In an ideal world lol:

Fallout:

  • Fallout 5
  • Fallout: Return to New Vegas (remake with the cut content, modern gameplay and an improved map)
  • smaller standalones (Far Harbor-sized)
  • Fallout Shelter Online 2 to launch alongside the Amazon Prime TV show
  • Fallout: Adventures (Vault-Boy / Vault-Girl as the hero)

TES:

  • The Elder Scrolls VI
  • Morrowind remake
  • The Elder Scrolls strategy game (Total war, 4X, Grand Strategy, Battle of the Middle Earth, whatever the style)
  • Souls game in TES universe
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Letā€™s add a Fallout Tactics (similar to Gears Tactics) to that list.

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I want Elder Scrolls Tactics too

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I donā€™t think Xbox is going to want to go 7-10 years before getting a Fallout. I know the rumor was bunk but I do feel like they will find someone to do a Remake/Remaster of Fallout 3/NV and also probably Oblivion/Morrow Wind.

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Spin offs based around the guilds would be awesome.

Each guild is a different type of game etc

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Ubisoft makes them in 2-3 :risi:

Yeah, but they have a global chain of massive studios arranged like clockwork. Itā€™s a very different set up to BGS and Todd Howard is on record saying he doesnā€™t believe you can deliver a BGS style game if you go too big.

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It cannot be decade because they are going to release Starfield. If you donā€™t count Starfield then you should include FO76 then instead. We will see whatā€™s Starfield is gonna deliver.
Previous gen was not that great for big RPG games honestly. A lot of studios did not have budget to tackle the really huge RPGs. Next gen on other hand with MSā€™ moneyā€¦

You have already waited 10 years for the next TES. Another 10 wonā€™t make a difference :doge:

Should be noted that the IP is not actually on hiatus, while the single-player version is, there is FO76 still receiving content.

As noted in my post above, I have seen an interview with Todd Howard where he responds to fan/media suggestion that they hire up and become multiple times as big to deliver games quicker and deliver more games. He isnā€™t into the idea. He likes a relatively compact team working on games up until the point they go into full development, and then they have their carefully developed Austin and Dallas studios who can support. If things get too big, it impersonal and mechanical and you donā€™t end up with a special game.

There are a number of ways another Fallout game could be delivered without the core Maryland team running things:

  1. Continue with Fallout as an MMO. FO76 may have been released in a poor state, but Austin has surely learnt a lot of lessons since then. A sequel to 76 (Fallout 86 or whatever) built from the ground up in the updated engine and applying all the lessons they learnt from 76 could actually be something worthwhile.

  2. ā€˜Graduateā€™ Austin to single player. Same as above, they have learnt a lot from FO76 and might now be trusted to deliver a core FO title.

  3. A different internal studio. MS now owns everyone who has ever worked on the IP. Brain Fargo of inXile, with Interplay, invented it and he might want another crack at it. Obsidian made NV and might fancy another go (although to be fair they seem to have plenty on their plate). If Bethesda were willing, this might be an option.

  4. Contract it second-party. Bethesda did this before, with Obsidian, and it worked out pretty well. Itā€™s always an option.

But those are the options. Otherwise, itā€™s likely going to be a long time before we see a game. It could be even longer than some assume if Starfield blows up and Howard wants to focus on his new baby up to his retirement.

People assume: Starfield > ES6 > FO5, but it could end up being: Starfield > ES6 > Starfield 2 > ES7 > Starfield 3 > Todd Howard retires.

Na, with MS resources now Iā€™m sure they will be able to get one entry of their major franchises out this gen.

Whatā€™s the story behind why TES Online was spun off to ZOS, but Fallout 76 was kept in house at Bethesda? That seems to be the root of a lot of the issues being discussed here - that Bethesda has a developer shortage due to roughly 25% of the team working on FO76.

Please note (javy), Iā€™m just curious - not calling for FO76 to be outsourced or anything like that.

Because Maryland wanted to make 76 and they left updates to Austin once they shifted focus on starfield

Random note: The top 6 modded games of all time according to Nexus are all Bethesda titles.

  1. Skyrim - 1.8 billion mods downloaded
  2. Skyrim SE - 1 billion
  3. Fallout 4 - 802 million
  4. Fallout New Vegas - 360 million
  5. Oblivion - 243 million
  6. Fallout 3 - 148 milion

I cannot wait for Starfield, TES VI, and Fallout 5 to join that list.

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I laughed

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Do we know exactly what the situation is between the various BGS teams, in terms of who is working on what project?

There seems to be a lot of conversation thrown around about how BGS Austin is mostly supporting Starfield, and that a skeleton team is on Fallout 76. And of course we donā€™t really know much about BGS Dallas or BGS Montreal. As someone who just last week finished up the last of Fallout 76ā€™s story content (launched a nuke, sided with the Raiders for the raid, and sided with Rahmani for the future of Appalachia) Iā€™m interested to see where they go from here. The Pitt looks like an interesting idea, but the game is starved for content. Itā€™s never been better for a new player to start playing FO76 but for an endgame player, thereā€™s not much new to do. I donā€™t envy that dev teamā€™s position.

As for my stance on the ā€œtriangleā€ of Starfield/TES/Falloutā€¦Iā€™ve long assumed that Obsidianā€™s Avowed team could perhaps move onto a new Fallout game after wrapping up Avowed in 2023. By then, XGS/Bethesda relations should be pretty seamless and something like that wonā€™t be too disruptive. Microsoft is probably in a weird situation right now where they donā€™t want to disrupt Bethesdaā€™s workflow too much early on, because preserving that culture is very important. And of course we know that all Zenimax teams have been hiring as much as they want, along with most of XGS. Microsoft knows that quality manpower is a finite resource and that support studios are going to be at a premium going forward, especially with the moves that Tencent and Embracer have been making.

Whichever team makes the next Fallout, it canā€™t be on the old Creation Engine again. Hopefully this new engine delivers, because the stakes have arguably never been higher.

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Whereā€™s that being said?

I would say itā€™s the other way around, the BGS Austin job postings seem to be for online service titles and from what I can see itā€™s more like Austin has been staffing up to keep doing that so that BGS Maryland, Dallas and Montreal can fully focus their energies elsewhere (getting Starfield to the finishing line + early work on ES6). Maryland did a lot of work on 76 originally, but I suspect now thereā€™s basically near-zero people from Maryland working on it anymore. Just what I see from the outside, I donā€™t know for sure ofc.

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Mostly because the Winter update has been delayed for most parts and in insight, that update and the content in 2021 overall were not that huge (mostly the Steel Reign update this summer in terms of new story content) so people in the community are wondering how many people exactly are working on the game. The content is huge for new players but they are not adding much in terms of endgame or things to do for long-term players (new events or new bosses).

Although, to be fair, those are free updates (unlike TESO) and this is not the first time things get delayed (Wastelanders got delayed from 2019 to 2020, Steel Dawn and Steel Reign were initially to both release together in 2020 and Expeditions were initially planned for late 2020 and are now planned for 2022).

Either Expeditions in 2022 are big and are draining resources or it just means that the team supporting Fallout 76 is a small team. We shall see the scope of Expeditions soon hopefully.

I love Fallout 76 though, support has been great but it always felt like it never got the proper support it needed despite it being successful and a big IP (and more than that, the Fallout IP in general doesnā€™t have enough people working on it anyway. Compare it with Halo or Minecraft which have hundred of people working exclusively on these franchises on the XGS side). Plus last september the Project Lead left Bethesda and we still donā€™t know who replaced him.

Those numbers are insane, really shows what a monster Skyrim is but also shows one of the reasons why BGS would want to stick with their engine

Starfield gonna be massive in the mod community I think

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Yeah, my guess is that some accountants at Zenimax (prior to Microsoftā€™s acquisition) looked at the state of Fallout 76 at launch and did estimates on how much it would feasibly cost to get the game to a point where it would no longer be a ā€œstainā€ on the health of both the company and IP. Considering all of the post-launch story content has been free, I think the game has largely earned back its reputation. There are of course the gamers that are tired of BGS ā€œjankā€ and were never on-board for a multiplayer game, but those people werenā€™t the target audience for the game, either. (And on a separate topic, I think thereā€™s still room for a more traditional BGS game with co-op, not the sort of survival/MMO/looter shooter/single-player hybrid that Fallout 76 is.

Iā€™ve said it for months now, but I absolutely would not be surprised to see Fallout 76 be put on EoL status in 2023 or so. At a certain point it becomes more valuable to have that talent/resources be put on a new game with the hopes that that new project is a better financial and creative success.

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