I’m not using any of the games already released as examples, I’m just going by what Sony is saying, the moves they’re making and extrapolating reasonable stuff from there, that’s all. I’m not the one adamant about Sony NEVER releasing day 1 on pc. You seem to have moved the goalposts a bit. “outside of multiplayer only”, well those are first party games too and them releasing on pc day 1 would still invalidate your “Sony will never release day 1 on pc” stance. I haven’t made the arbitrary distinction of blockbuster vs multiplayer vs indie or whatever, I just said its very much possible for a Sony first party game to release day 1 on pc as well this generation, doesn’t matter if it is Single-player, multiplayer or indie/AA. If you concur that Sony might indeed release a MP game on pc day 1 as well, then you agree to what I’ve been saying all this time anyway.
Like I don’t get why people still don’t understand this. Sony can try all the want but pc folks would rather wait for their games to come to pc or just never play them at all. Especially now that Sony has been rather forward about PC support moving forward, that’ll make it even less necessary to get their plastic box and Sony knows that’s not really that problematic. Microsoft has already realized this and has already realigned its entire ecosystem and offering around it, it’s just a matter of time before Sony does too.
Frankly anyone buying a Sony TV and expecting it to support the latest standards in a timely fashion is backing the wrong horse. Their initial support for HDMI 2.1 in the 2021 models is just bad and the schedule for updates to support full feature level is worse, currently aiming for VRR in December(rumoured)! As for pre 21 sets there is maybe one that will get proper 2.1 support, for owners of earlier sets my advice is to give up and buy elsewhere. Meanwhile LG has already rolled out 4k 120 DV support for 21 TVs and soon for 2020 sets.
What are you talking about? It is outrageous because you’re assuming in a year no one will buy a PS5 anymore and go for Series X. Sony still has a shit ton of games.
Nothing has changed this gen apart from MS having a vastly superior console compared to what they had last gen. Sony had a drought last gen too. But Ps5 is outpacing PS4 by a lot. PS4 had even less games than PS5. I think they had 1 game in 2014 and it was a remaster of a PS3 game.
Sony has proven even when people move to other consoles(360 gen) they have enough support to come back and sell a ton of consoles.
The outrageous comment was valid because you think Sony delaying games will effect them selling consoles in the short term. It absolutely won’t. Thats why they’re delaying them
In a normal world where demand isn’t high and covid doesn’t exist and there’s enough parts to go around…Sony are putting more money on extra staff to get these games out.
Right now they don’t have to do that. Nor should they.
I never said anything resembling what you are asserting here. Read comments more carefully before replying please.
Microsoft has the better hardware and have done a far better job than they did seven years ago with Xbox One. Sony had Knack, Resogun and Killzone Shadow Fall at launch for PS4 with Infamous Second Son, Infamous First Light, Driveclub and The Last of Us Remastered in 2014.
For PS5, Sony has had Demon’s Souls Remake, Sackboy and Spider Man: Miles Morales at launch with Returnal, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, Ghost of Tsushima Director’s Cut and Death Stranding Director’s Cut in 2021. In general and personally, I believe the first year of PS5 blows away PS4.
Like GoroMajima said, even when people jumped to Xbox 360, Sony still came back to end up in second place a few million ahead of Xbox 360 despite releasing a year later and being 10m behind.
Microsoft is doing great with Xbox Series X/S but Sony is still the market leader and have dominated for 25 years. Any screw ups that they’ve had are minor at worst. The only difference is that I do believe Series X/S will be closer to PS5. Instead of being outsold 2 to 1 like last generation, I believe that PS5 will outsell Series X/S 1.5 to 1.
Sony though will be just fine.
As for Horizon II: Forbidden West getting delayed to 2022, I was always expecting that so no biggie and if Microsoft has an empty first half of 2022 like they did this year, then their Holiday success with Halo and Forza may be short lived. Have to wait and see how that all plays out.
Either way, nothing better than owning both Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5.
This mentality of ‘they have done great before so they are somehow immune to market factors’ is precisely how they got their ass handed to them in the PS3 era and how Nintendo’s appeal to core gamers dissolved. There is nothing magical about PlayStation’s brand. It plays by the same rules as it did with the PS3 when its public image got shredded. Sony is not making the same mistakes this time, but they also are not competing with Xbox anymore; they are competing with Microsoft Corp.
I’d also argue they are not the market leader in any meaningful way. They aren’t leading anything in any notable direction. I don’t see their competitors trying to copy them or follow in their footsteps. Instead, Sony are (attempting) to follow what Xbox is doing wrt acquisitions and Game Pass. They aren’t driving the discourse in the industry, Xbox is. They aren’t changing how games are being made with big tech investments or widening their appeal or lowering the barriers of entry to their ecosystem like Xbox is. Having more console sales will only be less meaningful after this holiday when Game Pass is spread across half a dozen devices already in ppl’s homes anyhow.
Anyhow, the point I made earlier has nothing to do with PS4’s year 1 lineup. Sony isn’t competing for mindshare with PS4 circa 2013. It has to compete with Xbox/MS with lots of spring/summer momentum headed into a holiday with some big guns, bold moves wrt ecosystem access, and Game Pass dominance while Sony sits back with little to highlight for the holidays. That is problematic for mindshare to say the least.
To make sure this is crystal clear, the consequences of the mindshare contest this fall aren’t related to PS5 sales this holiday, they nevertheless speak to the longer term prospects of the PS5 because the aforementioned gamers who flock to Xbox this fall aren’t going to turn around and buy a PS5 anytime soon. Just because PS5 sells out this holiday does not mean its long term prospects are fine and dandy if gamers who woulda bought the system in the subsequent years have moved on to Xbox in the interim.
This Blue Box thing has been really hilarious
Damn that looks a looooooot better than the final design
Horizontal scaling in development usually means increasing capacity, so it sounds like Nixxes will be the ones porting the games to PC while the main developers focus on the game/Playstation
Sony I would say dominated 2 and a half out of 4 generations. And if were talking pure domination. Probably only the PS2 generation and to a lesser extent the PS1. PS4 outright won comfortably against the Xbox one but wouldn’t call it domination. Even though PS4 had a way better library. Certainly not in NA. The PS4 barely sold 10m more than the Xbox One in NA.
The PS3 gen the were very much 3rd best for most of it. Its irrelevant if they came back and outsold the 360 by a million. Most of that generation they were 3rd place and losing that much marketshare they can only finish as losers. You can’t go from Ps2 to PS3 selling half the amount of consoles and think you have some moral 2nd place victory. You came off the worst of all 3 companies.
The sales between PS5 and XSX/S will be interesting in NA. I think Xbox can overtake Sony again. IT will be neck and neck though.
Your logic of thinking can be argued for in North America(maybe the UK). But not the Rest of the world and mainland Europe in general.
I’ve said this before but it doesn’t matter if PS5 doesnt’ have any games for the the next 3 years and Xbox gets amazing games. there are markets that just won’t buy an Xbox over PS5. The same thing happened in the PS3/360 gen. 360 was clearly vastly superior for a number of years had the better multipalts… but PS3 easily outsold it in some of those territories. Sony has a fanbase that will buy their systems no matter what. Sam with Nintendo except Nintendo don’t have mass market fanbase. Its why the Wii U was a failure.
Obviously in a market like NA and to a lesser extent the UK there is that competition so there is potential for people to choose Xbox over PS. They did in the 360 gen. The 360 destroyed the Ps3 in NA.
In general, Sony has dominated for 25 years. Outside of Nintendo’s Wii fluke, it hasn’t even been close. Sure, Xbox 360 led majority of the generation but they had a year 10m head start and it’s not about how you start, it’s about how you finish and Sony ended in 2nd place when they should have ended in 3rd place.
PS was a slaughter with over 100m units sold with Nintendo 64 in the 30m range and Saturn has been said to not even crack 10m and even if they did, Sony came in as the nobody, the newbie, crushed Nintendo and was one of the reasons that sent Sega packing from hardware. So yeah, I would call that a slaughter especially when 25 years later, they still haven’t lost their #1 ranking.
PS2 generation was an even bigger slaughter with 155m+ consoles sold while Nintendo sold about 22m Gamecube units, Dreamcast was said to be under 10m and did worse than Saturn while the new kid on the block, Xbox sold 25m or so. All three consoles combined barely managed 33% of what Sony did with one console.
For NA, yeah, Xbox One was close and while Xbox 360 dominated NA over PlayStation 3, to see Sony come in like Nintendo before it and dominate the NA market which unlike Microsoft is NOT their home turf says a lot.
Whatever market share Sony lost with PS3, they gained right back with PS4 to where it’s like they didn’t lose anything at all.
To put it in perspective, when you take Sega Saturn and Dreamcast, Nintendo 64, Gamecube, Wii and Wii U, Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox One combined, they sold an estimated 442m console units while Sony with PS to PS4 sold over 460m console units. Basically, three companies with nine consoles combined still got beat out by one company with four consoles. Let’s be honest, that shouldn’t happen. Also, excluding Microsoft, Nintendo and Sega were the leaders and veterans so to speak and both had their asses handed to them but a company that came in on the first shot and dominated. No company has been able to replicate that since. Not Microsoft, not Google, not Tencent, not Amazon, nobody. And no company ever will.
While this is obviously an Xbox favored site, it’s almost as if Xbox fans have ignored the last 25 years. Like it or not, it’s the simple reality. The difference with me is that I favor the console and brand which is my primary and for this generation, my primary IS Xbox Series X but just because I favor Xbox this generation doesn’t mean that I forgot the last 25 years or want to ignore it because it doesn’t fit my narrative of favoring Xbox this generation.
Xbox is doing great again which they haven’t done in over a decade since Xbox 360 but at the end of the day, Microsoft is the underdog. They’re not the favorite and haven’t been for over a decade.
As for this generation, I do believe that Microsoft will win back NA but it will be by less than 10m and they’ll get back a lot of market share in Europe as I believe that they get within 10m of PS5.
Luckily for me, im expecting Xbox Series X to at the very least end up being my #2 gaming console of all time and could be #1 depending on how their exclusives hit for me personally. But with that said, I am expecting PlayStation 5 to be my #1 secondary console of all time.
I’m going to start Returnal in earnest. Any good tips for me on how to be the most efficient and successful? I’ve played a little bit and have a small feel of it, but there’s so much that feels obtuse and I’m not sure what’s the best way to tackle a run, progress, etc.
Really it’s as ugly as the current model but even bigger.
Sorry but this is what I think about when I look at that damn ugly as sin dev kit…
There is nothing mythical or special about PlayStation as a brand. It has gained its popularity in the same ways Atari, Nintendo, Apple, et al did and market factors dictate the success of the brand. It was once presumed Japan belonged to Sony…they barely sell PlayStations there anymore. Things change as the market factors shift around. That is true of every brand in existence. How things are today is not determinant of what things look like in the future.
Xbox as a brand are making such aggressive moves wrt radical changes to the industry’s landscape that nothing is set in stone at this point. The areas MS is pushing gaming into are areas where Sony struggles to compete. If MS is successful in shifting the landscape in that direction, it is not easy to predict what Sony does in response or how well they can adapt. We just don’t know yet and there is not much sense pretending otherwise.
That sounds exactly like Sony execs circa PS3 launch. We saw how that logic worked out. Again, PlayStation has never had to compete with MS the corporation before. You’re myopic in thinking that this is about Xbox vs PlayStation. It isn’t.
There is already significant momentum shift in Xbox’s favor and they still are not really firing on all cylinders in any area yet.
Nah, some of us were just around long enough to have seen arcades dominate the markets, then Atari dominated, then Nintendo, then Sony, then Wii and 360 clobbered PS3, then PS4 and now Switch is killing it while XSX/PS5 both sell every unit they can put on shelves…
The myth about Sony’s PlayStation brand ‘dominance’ is borne out of Sony fans focusing on the hits an forgetting or outright dismissing the misses as you do here. What matters is why these platforms did good/bad in the past, not the outcomes themselves. You should focus on how things are going atm, the trends in that regard currently, and the cards left for the companies to play in the near term. We dunno much about the last element there, but what we do know thus far drastically favors MS.
I will reiterate what I told the other guy: PlayStation is not competing with Xbox anymore. It is competing with Microsoft Corp. The cards in their hand at Xbox is no longer hobbled by the division’s budget, but rather the ambitions of a $2 tril mega corporation who is the only company int he business capable of forcefully shifting how the industry works at scale.
It’s not a myth. It’s facts. Sony has had plenty of misses like the launch of PS3 but when you end up in 2nd place despite having huge misses in the beginning of that generation, they simply don’t matter because they overcame them. That’s the difference. It doesn’t matter how you start. It’s how you finish.
For the most part, things are going great for Sony overall. 10m in sales in 8 months. Highly rated exclusives. A few that are great and I personally enjoyed. A few studio acquisitions.
The negatives would be the upgrading games stuff, the “quiet” nature of Sony currently, the SSD beta and not taking responsibility if anything goes wrong, etc. but at the end of the day, vast majority of PlayStation fans don’t care about this stuff.
I know that Sony is competing with Microsoft and their bank account but all that money won’t mean much if anything in the long term if their exclusives don’t hit. It simply won’t matter. In fact, Microsoft could have zillions of dollars and it still wouldn’t matter.
Microsoft is doing amazing with Xbox right now but unlike others, I don’t care about their PR shit or Sony’s PR shit for that matter. All I care about are the games, specifically the exclusive games both companies will give me and if they’re great for me. Sony has earned my confidence between PS3 with Naughty Dog and the entire PS4 generation. Microsoft had my confidence during the Xbox 360 generation but lost it over the last decade or so to where they need to get that back and while they’re doing nearly everything better than Sony, it’s the games that matter the most which is why I own both consoles and bought them to begin with.
There is just as much chance of that happening as Sony’s exclusives not being successful. XGS has plenty of teams with long track records on par with Sony’s teams. Ppl seem to imagine the devs themselves aren’t what matters and somehow XGS is ‘unproven’, as if pubs make games instead of the actual dev teams. It’s silly.
It is supremely naive to imagine that platform success is somehow unrelated to corporate resources. The only reason Game Pass exists as is comes down to $$$. Sony can’t compete with it directly because they lack the funds to cover internal dev costs and to pay 3P devs upfront, which undermines the entire promise of what is on offer in the first place. The reason Sony has to rely on Azure, which restricts their ability to ever compete with xCloud(!!) is also down to lacking $$$. The reason their hw is weaker and uses less advanced tech is a combination of $$$ and corporate resources like the DirectX team.
And it is a myth that any brand is invincible, especially one that already got ruined during the PS3 era. PS3’s resurgence wasn’t about magical branding. don’t take my word for it, we can TEST your theory! If it were true, PS3 woulda done super well outta the gate, especially off the heels of PS2! Sony quite literally tested your theory with the PS3 and it failed so spectacularly that they had to about-face 2/3 of the way through the cycle. Clearly, not even Sony execs agree with you here.
It should not be controversial to explain that PlayStation and all other brands are beholden to market factors. This is the central premise of economics and it is not something to just handwaive away. If this stuff just magically didn’t matter, Sony would not be reacting to Xbox the way it has been, nor would MS be doing what it is doing.
Brands rise and fall. A lot of moves that Xbox has made, haven’t had any influence yet (forum meltdowns don’ count). And even then we have 6.5/10 split with PS coming from vastly more successful generation while Xbox literally doesn’t have exclusive games yet and failed last gen. And you can add to that MS had less consoles to sell because they were making (and still making) Azure blades thus the real split across the world would be even less.
PS has better mind share, that’s for sure. But it is already slowly but surely eroded by Xbox and Game Pass. Even if people buy PS, if they subscribe to Game Pass, it is already a win for MS because they already leech $$$ from people owning playstation and contributing to Xbox at the same time. In the future they might even invest more in Xbox. Hell, even media is grasping at straws with “watermelon gate” and so on.
The only argument people has against Xbox is regarding GOTY. But that’s the thing - eventually Xbox will produce GOTY unless you believe that Xbox developers are inferior to Sony’s developers (of course I saw such takes too). It is not even if. It is when. And when it happens, what will people do next? Will start saying that awards don’t matter and “soul” is more important? “So what if they won GOTY, it is not the same camera angle!”. Like nowadays with graphics in Forza and MSFS where people argue that “it is not that type of graphics”, “no artistic vision” and so on. And Xbox will eventually make third person camera angle games. It is not even a question.
Coming after PS2 gen, PS3 is nothing but failure. The only reason why PS3 was able to achieve anything in the end is because Xbox 360 pivoted to Kinect instead of double downing on exclusive games like they did in the beginning of Xbox 360 era. You have to remember that PS2 was a sole console for a lot of gaming markets. In a lot of countries people haven’t heard anything about other brands aside Nintendo (and even then in my country we haven’t heard of that since NES era). And Xbox 360 was able to change that.