Wasn’t that because the PS5 dev environment is still the pretty much PS4s? so a PS5 game is like making a PS4pro game but with extra stuff.
Cerny definitely made sure to go out of his way to mention that when he revealed the ps5.
I think it’s universally acknowledged that the PS5 tools is much smoother than the Xbox’s. I just don’t think it’s the reason why third party games go for more of a parity result rather than squeezing the extra juice out of the Xbox.
It simply comes down to budget and priority.
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I think the differences between PS5 & Series X aren’t discussed in good faith anyway, at least not by the media. Everything is exaggeration, hyperbole & clickbait. Even candid conversations about potential future Xbox hardware plans as a result of their cherrypicked ‘facts’ aren’t particularly honest.
Everything (at least the vast majority of these conversations) always misrepresents the situation & makes it seem like games run better on PlayStation. But when we’re talking about sporadic (really sporadic) 3, 4 or 5 frame drops on Xbox (all within the VRR range), I think someone has to be fishing for something to turn that into an issue.
And if someone doesn’t have a VRR display, then the PS5 isn’t going to be buttery smooth either (if we’re talking about the recent Cyberpunk update) because it also has drops into the mid/high 50’s as well).
I’ve only experienced one real sh*tshow on the Series X since I got it, i.e. Ghostwire. None of its graphics or performance modes were smooth, whether at 60hz or 120hz. But that was just one game which I didn’t even like that much either (I tried it via gamepass). But I’m currently playing through Lies of P on the Series X in performance mode (with the Xbox settings at 60hz) & it’s absolutely beautiful, without any frame rate stutter whatsoever (I have an old with VRR).
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Seems like an overall downgrade compared to previously and not really for the better either? Iirc the last test DF did they gave the nod to Xbox for all aspects, but that has turned around now. Why do they opt for VRS if it makes it look worse? Could they just not have done the same they did for PS5? I guess this is something they could fix in a next update?
And the lower resolution in performance mode, did that come at least with some benefits in the map from the base game? Otherwise why even lower it?
It’s seems weird to me that they maybe mixed FSR2 and VRS together. FSR is suppose to take a lower resolution image and push it to whatever number they want saving on performance.
While VRS takes a higher resolution image and lowers the resolution of certain areas of the screen we don’t directly look at to help with performance.
So to me this sounds like they took a lower resolution image, upscale to 4K than had VRS lower the resolution of the areas we don’t look at below what the actual resolution is, causing issues. I still need to watch it but it seems like mixing these 2 techniques together would need more work for optimization than just using either seperately.
For me the worst feeling games I’ve played on Series X are Dark Souls 3, the doubling of the frame rate helps but it still feels bad for me and Mortal Shell. Mortal Shell to me it almost feels as bad as Dark Souls 3 did back when I played it on Xbox 1.
I don’t think it’s a downgrade. They are pushing more geometry and detail. The cost of that is mainly a performance hit in the new areas.
Capping the output resolution to 1800p I assume is an attempt to make FSR2 work better……I don’t know.
We don’t know for sure VRS is the cause of some of the issues but that is simply Oliver’s assumption. He suggests it is there to reduce GPU load. It’s a pretty minor thing and you won’t notice in gameplay. The FSR2 breakup though is noticeable on Xbox but not PS. Who knows why that is?
There could be to be more to it than that?. The same was true for the One X and OG Xbox and in most cases developers looked use the better GPU’s and you could see it despite the low user base for the One X and the huge userbase of the PS2 to the OG Xbox
Don’t think it’s a clear win for the PS5 version it lacks X Box’s VRR and drops to a lower screen res. I do wish DF would drop the 300% zoom. No gamer plays a game in 300% zoom
I don’t think many people in here are claiming that the PS5 looks like a clear winner, we’re just simply saying theres some juice that isn’t being squeezed in regards to the XSX.
As for the PS4Pro vs One X situation. Technically, the gap between the PS4 Pro and One X is larger than the gap between XSX and the PS5. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s what the math is telling me lol.
https://twitter.com/PeterOvo5/status/1706743224792920444
I assume that this goes here, it’s a shame most devs aren’t taking advantage of the extra Series X power.
I’ve watched the whole section of the DF direct where they discuss this and IMO that tweet is either a gross simplification of what Richard said or a direct misinterpretation as it implies a pejorative subtext of MS asking - we’ve given you all these great features and you just give us PS5 parity.
In context Richards statement is more implying that in Series X MS delivered a machine that is clearly more powerful then PS5, his (rather clumsy) analogy was two models of PC graphics cards one lower than the other, so MS now need to be asking why this is.
So the “asking” is in a wider context, asking themselves, asking engine and middleware companies, asking developers etc.
The 1X ‘v’ PS Pro thing is inherently different as 1X was focused on HW changes to allow games to run at 4k rather than 900p and was based off analysis of existing engines and games and how they actually used the available X1 hardware in real life.
In the case of Series X we have a boatload of new mainly unproven technologies rolled out to a console and the anecdotal evidence is telling us these have been hard to integrate, not used effectively or not used at all so far for whatever reasons.
So it absolutely makes sense for the company that invested in those technologies as a differentiator to investigate why they are not seeing a return on that investment and working out what they can do to improve the situation with improvements to Dev. environment, working with engine providers etc they can make.
The problems will probably be many and varied but at the end of the day when one install base is massively bigger than the other Xbox need to be the ones making it so easy to use these features that 3rd parties can do so with minimal effort.
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I don’t think it’s all about features when the raw performance is superior as well.
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But even in that case the questions MS would need to ask would still be the same. No?
It’s comes across that way on X.
Xbox should look to improve their tools and make it easier for developers to exploit the power of the Series X. The Series X has already outsold the OG Xbox yet developers did a better job of exploiting its GPU advantage over the PS2 irrespective of the PS2 massive userbase advantage.
It’s pretty clear Microsoft internally expected the series x to outperform the PS5 in a way we’ve definitely not seen. You could see that in the leaks.
Why it hasn’t seems complex and seems a significantly wide set of reasons. However, I think we are beyond just saying ‘tools’ as from what I’ve heard whilst Sony made some things easier initially there isn’t that much of a delta now.
My uneducated guess is that a lot of the tech MS banked on using either hasn’t been really used effectively AND the hardware lacks the grunt to fully realise those features.
The other problem they have is being behind in the dev environment early on really has hurt them in a generation where development was constrained for the first two years and now we are at a point where it is not PCs have already made the console look like it’s considerably out of date, the window for Series X shining and really making a power statement probably went at the start of this year. Sadly.
The tools are no longer the problem, as Xbox got those sorted out to match and even exceed PS5 and are still getting better. The problem is the Xbox One gen just left Microsoft in a situation where they can’t be too strict with the demands for devs, as we learned when ABK gave them the ultimatum of give us a better cut or we don’t launch on your new console.
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PS5 has been outselling Xbox in a 2:1 ratio more or less. If only for that reason, PS5 is going to be a priority. Developing for the Xbox platform, your attention is split among 2 SKUs, 2 performance profiles, twice as much testing.
So my guess is make sure that the game runs great on PS5 first and foremost, then make sure the game performs more or less on XSX like it does on PS5 (sometimes slightly less…), then make whatever cuts necessary to get make it run acceptable on XSX.
You can see it by Xbox sometimes getting performance patches months after release that suddenly make the game run better than the PS5… It’s simply not a priority for devs.
There’s only two things Microsoft can do:
- develop great looking 1st party games that put 3rd party offerings to shame, that way people at least can see that XSX can do better
- sell more consoles so that developers have more financial incentive to pour resources into the XSX version
Realistically, even Microsoft delivers on both fronts, the generation will be almost over anyway…
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Looks amazing in motion and side by side with FM7, the improvements are obvious.
There is some interesting discussion, which I’m sure will continue after the game is out, about whether the dynamic lighting produces scenes that are less subjectively impactful/artistic compared to the baked lighting conditions from before.
Looks to be a tools issue when games like Ghostwire and Callisto Protocol feature better Ray tracing effects on the PS5.
It only get worse if its true about a PS5 Pro.