Games Analysis |OT| Time To Argue About Pixels And Frames!

[TheBrightestSun]

@No-1HoloLens-Fan

Oh… But then what’s the point of UE5?

Maybe they can turn down the settings? But not using Nanite and Lumen makes it pointless I believe

UE is finally a good engine for open world games for starters.

[No-1HoloLens-Fan]

@BRiT

Huge improvements in the actual production workflow for artists and level designers as well as the huge improvement in the world streaming so it more readily support open-world style games “out of the box” without requiring extensive modification or rewrites from the developers.

Thanks for the explanation and you too @rtansey

Lumen and Nanite are hyped so much that it feels like UE5 is all about them

But sure there is more to it

[BRiT]

@Shakez

SuperRes can’t come soon enough.

The funny thing is, when its CPU-bound turning down the resolution doesn’t offer any improvements so you might as well turn up the resolution, so things like SuperRes wouldn’t help at all.

[Biggzy (Hassan)]

@rtansey

This gen CPUs are much better than last, but tbh I can’t help but be a little disappointed they aren’t on the 5000 series architecture and are on the 3000 series. Less instructions per clock / gaming perf in comparison :’( Still should be good enough for the gen

You have to draw the line somewhere, but the CPUs should be good enough to last this gen. I mean if Jaguars were enough last gen… Lol.

[Kals_Els]

So, would this mean that using different raytracing techniques would be better than using lumen for games aiming for 60fps?

[rtansey]

@Kals_Els

So, would this mean that using different raytracing techniques would be better than using lumen for games aiming for 60fps?

Unsure, as Lumen has different quality settings anyway and is likely to be optimized by Epic and made more flexible with things like transparencies, skinned meshes, etc over time. I haven’t seen the details, but it likely uses similar resources as other RTGI/RT Shadows implementations. It’s just RT Shadows (alone) and RT Reflections are typically less computationally heavily (hence why they are used more often on consoles thus far) than good RTGI like Lumen

[BRiT]

@Biggzy

You have to draw the line somewhere, but the CPUs should be good enough to last this gen. I mean if Jaguars were enough last gen… Lol.

I’m so glad Sony opted not to pursuit the initial idea behind “next-gen” being the same Jaguar CPUs with 2x GPUs from the PS4 Pro and more memory for a 2019 launch. We would have essentially had a PS 4Pro-Pro with same puny Jaguar cpus.

[Biggzy (Hassan)]

@BRiT

I’m so glad Sony opted not to pursuit the initial idea behind “next-gen” being the same Jaguar CPUs with 2x GPUs from the PS4 Pro and more memory for a 2019 launch. We would have essentially had a PS 4Pro-Pro with same puny Jaguar cpus.

I am aware of the 2019 rumour, but was Sony seriously considering this?

[cinste (Pete)]

@Biggzy

but was Sony seriously considering this?

Will never know, from what I remember this all sprung from comments made by Alex in a DF video about the existence of PS5 dev kits with jag. cores.

So coupled with the rumours about an initial 2018 PS5 launch target it is certainly possible that they had what was effectively a pro pro based version of the PS5 lined up for early release and then dropped it.

Had a quick poke around and most of the discussion around it seem to have disappeared.

[Resist]

Pretty sure there will be performance optimizations.

[Biggzy (Hassan)]

@Resist

Pretty sure there will be performance optimizations.

Most likely.

UE5 is not set in stone and will evolve over time like other engines, plus developers themselves can alter the engine to suit their needs better like The Coalition did in order to get Gears 5 to run at 60fps on the One X, and funny enough that was mostly on the CPU side.

But as Alex stated in their weekly video, the first generation UE5 titles are likely to be 30fps, if developers want to wow people with what the engine can do.

[Resist]

@Biggzy

But as Alex stated in their weekly video, the first generation UE5 titles are likely to be 30fps, if developers want to wow people with what the engine can do.

First gen UE5 titles are years away, DF had been wrong on all their predictions regarding engines and hardware, so I’m not so sure about this.

[No-1HoloLens-Fan]

@Biggzy

Most likely.

UE5 is not set in stone and will evolve over time like other engines, plus developers themselves can alter the engine to suit their needs better like The Coalition did in order to get Gears 5 to run at 60fps on the One X, and funny enough that was mostly on the CPU side.

But as Alex stated in their weekly video, the first generation UE5 titles are likely to be 30fps.

It could be the case but only if they are huge open world like Matrix demo is

Something like linear or wide linear game could still work out to be 60 I think because CPU intensive work could be reduced for those titles (like bvh generation and cost of Nanite and NPC/AI)

[rtansey]

@Resist

First gen UE5 titles are years away, DF had been wrong on all their predictions regarding engines and hardware, so I’m not so sure about this.

Fortnite is UE5. If you mean lumen/nanite games on ue5 then they will probably be out in two years and I doubt they will magically be 60 fps optimized in most cases.

[Biggzy (Hassan)]

@No-1HoloLens-Fan

It could be the case but only if they are huge open world like Matrix demo is

Something like linear or wide linear game could still work out to be 60 I think because CPU intensive work could be reduced for those titles (like bvh generation and cost of Nanite and NPC/AI)

I just think the headline features of UE5 are heavy atm, as the initial PS5 demo ran at 30fps and the valley of the ancients demo released on PC was heavy as well if I recall correctly.

But time will tell, as the engine is constantly being updated like I said, but I think it is best to lower expectations a bit when it comes to 60fps for UE5 titles if devs want to go to town, at least initially.

[Resist]

@rtansey

Fortnite is UE5. If you mean lumen/nanite games on ue5 then they will probably be out in two years and I doubt they will magically be 60 fps optimized in most cases.

lol And I doubt this engine will still mostly rely on on single thread performance by then. So we’ll see.

[Kals_Els]

Can developers use RT instead of Lumen in UE5?

[rtansey]

@Kals_Els

Can developers use RT instead of Lumen in UE5?

Lumen is RT but yes they can opt for other methods of reflections, GI, etc.

[SpiderLink]

I’ve gotten pretty used to 60 FPS, I think. I do hope that whatever bells and whistles UE5 brings to the table, devs include a performance mode.

Edit: Come to think of it, what I’d love is super unrealistic. Something like what Master Chief Collection did where you can hit a dedicated button in-game to swap between modes. I always have trouble noticing the absence of things, so being able to compare at the drop of a hat would really help me understand how impactful these new tools are. (I know MCC didn’t exactly do this)

[KageMaru]

Excellent first part of DF Retro Gran Turismo. I still remember my friends and I thinking it looks kind of real if you squint when we were young lol

DF Retro: Gran Turismo - A Driving Retrospective - Part 1: The PlayStation 1 Era