i’m curious though if Sony makes mid gen upgrade what will MS do here ?
They will do the same ofc 
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Yeah I know that but I don’t think they will get out most of it’s power due existing of XSS, yeah yeah I know games scailing but there is a limit to it. Also you have more hassle on devs. Xbox version will take more time to make assuming they optimize the game for three consoles.
Xbox mid gen console will most likely advertised for 4k and 60FPS
I’ve also wondered about that. With two different systems already I would be very suprised if they did an upgraded S and X because that would mean 4 different systems to optimise(plus PC) for their own studios but even more for 3rd party and I don’t see third party putting in the effort. I could see just a more powerful X
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I imagine a mid gen upgrade would just crank settings and dial things up on the RT. These games are made for PC already.
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Higher clocks means more heat is produced when running the chip, which means tighter parameter ranges for what you target when fabricating it. That results in more chips not hitting those parameter targets and thus not being usable in XSS machines, hence more cost. You have to balance that out against the reality that almost nobody who will ever buy an XSS will notice or care about the downsides of not having that extra grunt.
Also, proper next gen game engines are gonna run just fine on XSS anyhow. During the cross gen phase where new consoles are just brute forcing everything and not leaning into any new gen features you won’t see XSS keep up as well, but with actual next gen engines it will likely look just like XSX version at 1080p instead of 4k (yes, devs will dial back draw distance and texture res and and AA but only bc ya can’t resolve all that detail on a 1080p screen anyhow so you can dial that stuff down w/o it being noticeable).
The issue of optimization mostly stems from trying to find ways to brute force old gen titles into new gen expectations but with next gen engines that won’t be much of an issue.
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Neither company will do one. MS’s engineers already explained why in their HotChips presentation. Spec bumps no longer are commercially viable options. We will get some form factor refreshes, but ya won’t likely see spec bumps. This is why MS launched with XSS at $300. They knew they’d not save any $$ by launching that 3 yrs on to target casuals, so might as well target them from day 1 at that pricepoint. Don’t expect any next gen machines to drop in price basically at all unless we get form factor refreshes and they clear out old stock someday.
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of course you get better hardware for the money with PS5D. The value isn’t just in hardware though. It’s in availability and cost of games/accessories.
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This generation, prices of the console will drop according to the prices of their SSD’s I believe. It won’t happen anytime soon to be honest because of supply constraints. But when it happens, SSD will be the reason.
Series S at 250$ looks so good
Sony and MS get their chips from the same place and are both subject to the same type of yields. People say that it will reduce yields, but give no concrete figures about how it effects yield rates. It’s just a guess at this point. Infact they is no evidence that going from 1.5ghz to 1.8 will hit yields at all. The XSS was meant to have the same tech and play the same games just at 1080p -1440p instead of 4k like the X. However we have had games where whole features have been missing from a game on the S compared to the X like Ray Tracing for instance. What’s the point of having RDNA 2 GPU with RT abilities if the system is too weak to use in some instances. All devs have praised the XSX and the PS5 however some have expressed issues with the XSS. An extra gig of RAM and a half a TF would have helped in this regard. Now from a selfish point of view it doesn’t bother me as I have a XSX and won’t be getting a XSS, however I just think it would have made more sense and added little cost. Sony are selling the PS5 DE for $100 more than the XSS and it has a bigger faster SSD, 6 gig more of RAM, bigger and faster GPU clocked at 2.23ghz (and listening to the whole yield talk the PS5 would be half the yield of the XSS), bigger cooling set up, liquid metal etc. But hey, if MS and the people who have bought it are happy, then I’m happy. I’m really happy with my XSX.
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We don’t have ‘concrete figures’ on hand. If you want that info, go ask MS’s engineers. The fact that hotter chips reduces thermal parameter ranges which, in turn, results in lower yields is not up for debate. When you tighten a parameter window fewer chips off the fab line will fit within it. News at 11…
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Yes, Sony has the same yield issues to contend with, which is why they have a pricey cooling design. That pricey design is why they have moved recently to cut costs (and corners) on the newer models. They cut costs in other areas too, which allows them wiggle room financially to deal with lower yields (i.e. higher cost per operable chip).
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Your whole rant thereafter (paragraphs please?) suggests you didn’t read my reply to No 1 Hololens Fan. Check it out: Games Analysis |OT| Time To Argue About Pixels And Frames! - #5323 by TavishHill
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Let’s see, the DE PS5 is probably sold at a big loss but they make up for it with 70$ exclusive games. XSS is sold for 100$ less but you’ll be playing way more games for the price. You’re missing the point that the console was made for casual ppl unlike you to just have a small, well designed piece of tech that just works. It’s not PC hardware.
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Why is a XSS with 10 GB Ram and 4 TF bad and a XSS with 11 GB RAM and 4.5 TF good? Explain these numbers. Let me guess, if XSS had launched with 11 GB RAM and 4.5 TF you would also suggest an extra gig of RAM and half a TF more would have helped?
Sony are losing money on PS5 DE. Thats why they are not building a lot it. 
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Yup it’s like a ratio of 1 out of 5 PS5 being the DE version. Whereas the Xbox series s is alot easier to produce and make up alot of the next gen console sales for xbox
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I have a Series S and X.
The Series S is absolutely fine as it is. Its built for a specific demographic to do a specific job. Games look great on it. Its a bargain next gen machine that plays all the games you want and is really built for 1080p screens or smaller monitors. You don’t even notice the difference between the two in those circumstances. I’m a user - I have one. But if you are an audio visual nerd and hook your S up to a massive 4K OLED then sure - its not going to be as good as the X. But its not designed to be.
The Series S is perfect at what it does. People need to stop thinking its there to impress in comparisons. Its not.
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Anyone else thinking it might be time to start a thread solely about the Series S? This thread has been off-topic for a while now.
My sister has an S and honestly I cant tell the difference between it and my X at times.
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Re : Paragraphs. For some reason when I type into the forum and even hit enter a couple of time to create paragraphs it just puts it all together. But thanks for your feedback anyway. Maybe you should direct it towards the forum software guys.
You are the one saying that increasing the frequency from 1.5ghz to 1.8ghz is going to effect the yields to the point that it is prohibitive. You are the one saying it is an issue. Everyone know that when you push chips you get more issues, but it is not a linear problem. Increasing the chip speed from 1.0ghz to 1.3ghz is not going to have the same effect on yield as going from 2.0ghz to 2.3ghz. As it stand, the XSS is on the low side of speed that RDNA 2 can tolerate. Sony pushed it all the way to 2.23ghz in a console when NO BODY prior to their reveal would have thought that possible. Let’s not forget that MS and Sony already have 4 redundant CUs for yield. So if you are the one saying it would effect the yield rate too much, you also need to supply the facts around how much it will. Not sure it’s on Microsofts engineers to supply the facts to help you out. Would the console require more cooling for the extra speed? Sure, they could increase the fan speed or have a slightly bigger cooling set up. But again like Yields, heat out put is not linear. Going up .3ghz from 1.5ghz is not going to be anywhere near the same extra heat from going up .3ghz from a base of 2.0ghz.
So how exactly did Sony cut costs to make up for their higher defective chip rate? It’s got a more expensive SSD. It’s got a more expensive liquid metal set up. It has a bigger cooling system. It is more expensive from a plastic fabrication point of view. The PS5 controller is a bigger upgrade in tech than xbox It has a more advanced WiFi chip. The controller comes with a rechargeable battery over the Xbox. It comes with a free game included in Astro. Hell, it even has a stand. In no way is the PS5 cheaper on design or manufacturing to compensate for lower yields.
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Everyone else is perfectly capable of using paragraphs. It isn’t a forum sw issue.
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I never said it was ‘prohibitive’. I said it makes the cost go up and that has to be balanced against what consumers care about and what expectations are for proper next gen performance on XSS. And if ‘everyone knows’ pushing chips harder leads to lower yields, then why are you asking me to give you figures to demonstrate what you readily agree ‘everyone knows’? o.0
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Please read posts slower before replying. You are presuming I am taking a position that I am not taking.
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Sony cut costs on the GPU feature set, CPU, and most recently on the cooling mechanisms. Ya know, the stuff that actually costs lots of money.
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XSS engineers designed it very deliberately to be an XSX for 1080p screens. You do not need more than what it provides to accomplish that in next gen game engines. Judging XSS based on cross gen scenarios where brute force is leveraged misses the point.
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You can use a line break tag if hitting enter isn’t doing it!
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