Epic Games and Apple are going to court over Fortnite in the AppStore

Maybe hoping that MS jumps in on the lawsuit in some way

MS has their own issues with companies such as Slack suing MS for the exact same practices with Office 365. I don’t think you will hear anything from MS as they just try to lay low

Slack is suing MS because they are selling their own software in a group, it’s nothing like this and Slack pretty much has 0 chance of winning.

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Slack is seeing MS because of the inclusion of MS Teams by default in Office 365 and Windows. And if you don’t think Slack has a shot, MS was successfully sued by Netscape for the same practices years and years ago, but some of you are probably too young to know this. MS was even brought up on anti-trust charges at the Federal level

So you were saying? Anyone who cheers the falling of walled garden should enjoy the malware-infested shite show that they will have to deal with across all their devices. Not just their PC’s. The Internet is already a dangerous place for pretty much anyone who isn’t security-proficient at a technical level. I like Apple’s store, because at least I know my personal information isn’t being sold to the highest bidder like it is in numerous other places. And if you think your consoles will be exempt think again. Consoles these days are more “media centers” than game machines, and fall under the same set of rules. Just a matter of time …

The main issue for me with the 30% cut is not cases like this with IAP but more so with Spotify’s complaint. How are other companies supposed to compete when Apple and Google’s services can operate at a 30% advantage on price. I think Spotify’s case has more chance in the EU than this one.

I knew this was going to happen and Epic knew it would happen too haha, they did this to get a lawsuite ready and then they can go down the anti trust/anti consumer route.

They do not make the payment process through the app store. They have their own. They question that Apple has a legal right to prevent that.

Of course you have to pay the 30% cut if you pay and buy from the App Store.

How is that the exact same thing?

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I’m really confused, why is epic so against giving apple the 30% cut?

They give the 30% cut Microsoft, Sony and Google, do they not?

Or they got a secret deal in place we don’t know about?

That being said I think Epic will lose, unless there is more to this that I am missing.

Netscape sued MS because MS was being hostile through code, OEMs, and bundling on a PLATFORM that has third party apps. So MS trying to kill competition through all means necessary on pretty much open platform.

Office software is not a platform, it’s a single group of tools that form Office. It would be equivalent to forcing Symantec to not put live internet protection into their Antivirus software bundle, ridiculous to even think of it.

Epic is suing Apple for preventing them from doing something that they allow other apps to do, applying different set of rules. So I hope that you can see a difference between unfair competition and making your own software do more than one thing

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I am old enough (probably older than you) to know and witness this and I am pretty sure it isn’t the same thing.

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tenor (1)

I’m more excited about this whole drama than I should be.

If - and that is a BIG if - Epic goes through with their lawsuit, the court ruling might have an impact on the gaming industry as large as the Bosman ruling in soccer in the 90s.

I understand Epic for wanting a bigger slice from the pie, but the way they are handling this sucks. Abusing millions of mostly underage players to get one over Apple and Google is just BS.

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Exactly this impact I see too. Bosman!

Apple did a dumb move here as with this block it may also block future Unreal Engine Games from their platform.

It will interesting to see how this all plays out. While EPIC is not free of misbehaviour I support them in this certain case

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I basically do as well, Just their “execution mode” is utter BS. The proper way, in short, would have been:

Epic: “Apple, we need to talk.” Apple: " What’s up?" E: “We want more money.” A: “Not going to happen.” E: “Thanks for the chat, see you in court.”

The little facts we know make it look like they put a gun to Apple’s head and left them no choice but to launch the nukes.

Apple claims they have an appeal process to challenge the contents of the guidelines themselves. If you go to court by doing a “weak undercover” attempt to launch an “Apple-free fortnite”, this will be buried under papers as, in theory, there is a process to solve the issue. Problem is that Apple’s intention was never to let developers challenge their guidelines (see facebook gaming comments after Epic’s scandal, “We did not receive a response” after months of trying to get app approved ; And now apple blocking Epic development accounts without even trying to negotiate terms and conditions, having a huge negative impact on Epic business and hundreds of other third parties). Doing all this process the “dirty way” is the way to prove Epic’s claims about Apple anti-trust practices.

This is the stuff people feared Microsoft was gonna do with UWP. Now Apple is actually doing it. Epic’s a big boy and has their own money, but nobody should be actively defending Apple in this. If they feel they can do this to a company as big as Epic, they’re sure as heck gonna do it to small developers.

Google has pulled Fortnite too and they’re also suing Google. It also turns out Google pressured other phone makers to not bundle Fortnite on their phones with it’s own launcher.

Apple and Google also got busted in 2015 for acting as a wage cartel, where if you got hired at one the other one would block you from being hired by them. That one cost Google and Apple a half billion dollars.

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They got removed from the Google Play store as well and are also suing Google.

This is a bit more complicated than having a issue with Apple’s 30%.

Well first of all Epic wants to bypass Apple’s store completely, not just lower the 30%. They want to be able to load their own store onto the phones and bypass the cut 100%. The reason they are doing this with the phones and not consoles (yet) is because governments are already eyeing Apple and Google for antitrust violations so it is a carefully planned attack hoping to use that as an assist. There are basically the two major operating systems for the phones and phones can be considered a necessity, so there is pressure to open them up. This is contrary to a video game console where there are multiple competitors for games including the PC and phones. Outside of the console manufacturers own developed games and games they pay for (exclusive deals) you can buy most games from multiple stores. So targeting consoles from the start wouldn’t get them anywhere.

However, if they can beat Apple and get their own store put onto phones, this opens the door for them to do the same on all of the consoles in one swoop just by the precedent set from beating Apple in court. This has the potential to open up consoles to anyone with enough money to open a store. EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Tencent (owns 40% of Epic), etc… This could dramatically change consoles, especially Sony who relies more on the traditional console 30% cut than say MS who are broadening how they deliver games.

They’ve been planning this a long time, and that probably includes them lowering the licensing fees on Unreal Engine to take eyes off of it as they have their own oligopoly going on themselves.

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Woah, I never even thought about all that, thank you for the insightful reply :)!

Hopefully Epic do not win this, I feel like it could be for the worst.

But what do I know…