Audio Gear and Advice |OT| - I like the way you sound

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Sorry, been meaning to respond. Saw your comment soon after you wrote it, but didn’t had the chance to reply back then. Then completely forgot about it, lol. Yeah if your TV supports Atmos it goes a long way.

Personally I’ve decided to return the soundbar. As much as I love a strong bass and sub presence in movies and games, it’s overkill for my living room. In many scenes and games it felt like the house was about to collapse because of the thunderous subwoofer. When I lowered the settings often sounds that should have a punch didn’t, but other scenes would just be way too boomy. I can’t imagine this having been pleasant for the neighbour below me, let alone how it must be for my dog. And I never want to be a bother to them.

I’ll be on the lookout for a bar without a sub, but one that doesn’t sound completely flat. Harman Kardon or Sonos might be it. I can add rear speakers later and who knows, maybe the sub of theirs IS suitable for my room, according to the stores I visited their subs are way less boomy and heavy.

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The Harman Kardon Citation Multibeam 1100 arrived yesterday and today I have been testing it for a few hours now and I am in love. :heart_eyes:

I had been looking for a soundbar that doesn’t need to rely on a subwoofer, and this definitely is it. I find it insane how powerful this bar sounds in terms of bass. I watched some scenes from A Quiet Place 2 and to me it sounded like a sub is built inside the soundbar, that powerful. With any game or movie scene I tested I was like…a sub would just be too much. For me and especially my dog. Let alone neighbours.

I had the Samsung Q990b, I returned it because the sub just was total overkill for my room, too boomy too. What the HK does is it almost sounds like the Samsung with sub, but not boomy and to my ears more pleasant sounding. It was awesome with just the bar, but once I added the rears, sheesh man. In one scene in A quiet Place 2 a car honk goes off and it shook me to the core, I need to try out a horror movie and game now, lmfao!

RDR2 in the swamps with the gators was quite the experience, all these nature sounds behind and around me. Love, love, love it!

There’s a very strong chance I’m keeping it. I am mightily impressed.

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I’m posting it here since the main focus will always be gaming, always.

So right now I’m still gaming using my TV speakers, which is really underwhelming and doesn’t do gems like RDR2, Witcher 3, Gears 5 etc any justice. And I don’t always want to wear headphones.

I’ve been looking at many soundbars, again, but this time I’m also seriously considering just building a full blown home cinema setup. But while looking for soundbars already is overwhelming, looking for the perfect speakers and sub is WAY more overwhelming. Picking the right AVR is not much of an issue, Denon has several now that support everything I need, which is VRR and 120hz. Basically HDMI 2.1.

And apparently the Denon AVR-X1700H has all that and is below 500 euros.

Speakers and a sub though. I will need some advice on that. And I am absolutely not against buying speakers second hand/used.

I am willing to spend 1000 on speakers and sub, or maybe even 1500. I honestly am not sure what I can even realistically expect to get. Since I’m open to used speakers at all, it could end up being way less money.

Fire away :slight_smile:

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You’ll most likely want something more recent than the Denon X1700H since that is a 2021 Model year. I strongly suggest researching every model you’re shopping for at the AVSForums since each new model has it’s own quirks. You should especially look into the eARC interaction with your specific TV Model and the AVR Model if you’re going for a setup with the TV as the main switcher. It can be a real PITA.

Here is their Denon 2021 model year owner’s thread @ https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-2021-denon-avr-owners-thread-s660h-s760h-x1700h-faq-posts-1-4.3220678/

Their Denon 2022/2023 model year owner’s thread @ https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-2022-23-denon-x-series-avr-owners-thread-x2800h-x3800h-x4800h.3252409/

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Oh damn. Here I thought of all things the AVR would be the most issue-less thing of it all, haha. I did read on Reddit about handshake issues with some of these AVRs but also that it was patched by now.

I’ll make sure to ask some much needed questions there.

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Yeah, it’s so much less of a science and more like mystic arts. It’s as they say “The great thing about standards is everyone has their own implementation of them!”.

The one aspect of eARC I did not like is how the TV set could limit what audio formats it supports and passes through to the AVR. I think the most notable are sets which don’t support DOLBY anything. Even if you have a set that supports some Dolby aspects from the Video side they may not support all from the Audio side.

You have to research and study for a mini-PHD in order to be sure you get what you want even in these higher enthusiast class gear. It’s depressing.

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I had the official Xbox Pioneer home theater setup back in the day…

image

These days I just want low sound from the tv. I have a sound bar/ sub setup I can bring out if I need it, but I never seem to want the extra sound. Perhaps if Xbox revives Guitar Hero I will bring it out, as Rock Band style games demand loud sound.

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When I still had the Samsung S95B TV I noticed how limited the options were. But I now have Sony’s flagship A95K, you’d think it would offer everything you can imagine…but I’m sure it doesn’t.

I noticed it with the Samsung soundbar. The bar was able to do DTS and DTS X and a few other formats. The TV wasn’t and thus these options were never available for me on Xbox either. I’m hoping my Sony TV does a better job. I’ll go start my research.

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What kind of speaker setup are you looking at? Standard 5.1 or 7.1? And are you wanting to go Atmos? And if you do want to go Atmos, are we talking 2, 4, or even more?

For reference, I play in a dedicated home theatre with a 7.1.4 setup. I wouldn’t consider myself a true AVSForum-style expert, but I have been doing home theatre stuff since 2000 when I got my first surround sound setup. I got my first dedicated room with a projector in 2006, and have been going bigger and better ever since. Point is, while I do speak with some experience under my belt, there’s plenty I don’t know. But if I can help you out, I’d be happy to.

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Good questions, stupid of me to forget to mention.

I want to build it gradually, so I always keep the option open for Atmos, absolutely. Not ceiling mounted or anything, just the ones to put on front speakers basically. Let’s say I go with two front speakers, I might not even need a center speaker because my TV actually can function as center speaker, really cool feature, two rears and a sub. 5. 1 is more than enough here, it’s a normal sized living room. Putting speakers on the sides would be too much, as in taking up too much space.

My father used to have Klipsch speakers, my brother still has his and they are awesome. I guess that’s a brand I can definitely be on the lookout for.

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Building it gradually is a great idea. That way each time you buy a component, you can afford to get something pretty decent, instead of spreading your resources too thin, thereby ending up compromising too much and in the end not like what you get.

While I’m not going to discourage you from giving this a shot, you should know that the centre speaker is probably THE most important speaker in a home theatre. Particularly for movie/TV watching. It is what all the dialogue will come from, and if you’re using a center speaker that can’t keep up with the rest of the system, the dialogue will be more difficult to discern.

So, by all means try to save some money and give this a shot, but know that you may want to get a proper centre speaker before long. Or maybe not, hence why it’s worth trying.

Klipsch is a very popular brand for those getting into the hobby. If you do go to AVS Forum or the Home Theatre subreddit (particularly) you’ll see plenty of super enthusiasts kind of turn their nose up at Klipsch, but I wouldn’t necessarily pay them any mind. It’s true that I’ve never demoed Klipsch, but from what I hear from people who either have them or have reviewed them, they do give you a lot of bang for your buck.

I have more to say, but I have to go have dinner. I’ll post again later today (or possibly tomorrow).

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I bought a starter set of Klipsch Speakers from Costco a couple years ago to get me started. I plan on replacing everything long term, but it was a good start. It had their floor standing with up firing atmos, a center, and two rears.

Something like this

https://www.adorama.com/kpr625fab.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwt52mBhB5EiwA05YKo6QfBE0fvtrXwAfez1c4F-kffiXa9uAngCrwGVzXpYjdR8yjg-5wQRoCptAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&utm_source=inc-google-shop-p

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Please don’t do this if you actually care about sound. :sweat_smile:

You have a ton of options obviously, but I think you should identify what you really want out of your system. If you want incredibly loud and clear audio that makes you feel like you’re in a cinema, you’re going to have to spend a bit more, but maybe not as much as you would think. There are plenty of decently priced 5.1 (or 7.1) speaker sets out there that will probably be more than enough for you though if you don’t need the absolute “best”.

If you want to build it piecemeal, I would splurge on a good center speaker and front R/L speakers, and maybe go a bit cheaper on the Sub and rears. Subwoofers will come down to personal preference on how you like your bass, and rear speakers are usually (in my experience) the least important for overall sound quality since the focus will almost always be on the front and center speakers anyway. Just keep in mind the wattage your speakers can handle. I would avoid anything less than 100, since the wattage determines, generally, how loud and clear a speaker can be (there are other factors, but I’m not qualified to go into it, lol).

Also, you should take the size of your room into account and how far apart all these speakers will be. If you’re in a tiny space, you probably won’t need as much power in your speakers to give you what you want. Basically, there’s no real reason to spend $2,500 on a set at that point (again, just my opinion).

Anyway, don’t feel like you have to go out and spend crazy money to get a good experience. I’m still using a relatively cheap 7.1 Onkyo system that I planned to upgrade from, but since the sound is a lot better than I thought it would be, I keep putting it off. :smile:

Honestly, if there’s a place you can go to “demo” audio systems, I would try that to get a feel for what you like and don’t like. Oh, and this is just my opinion, but stay away from Polk speakers. I’ve tried them a few times throughout the years and never liked them.

And to end this rambling mess, just troll through AVS forums and do as much research as you can.

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I’ll chime in here with a soundbar recommendation if you are thinking about that route at all.

I literally just bought the Samsung Q990C a week ago. So far I have been thrilled with its performance. It is an 11.1.4 Atmos compatible all-in-one system. It comes with a huge soundbar, a decent sized sub, and two wireless rear (atmos capable) speakers.

I was really looking for a wireless solution that could deliver capable atmos sound. Set up was a total breeze. I just hooked up the soundbar to the TV, plugged the sub and the surrounds into the wall, and everything automatically connected and started working. It doesn’t even need to know your wifi info.

I have this set up in my “main” TV room, which is about 300 square feet but open on one side. It is connected to an LG Oled TV. The room has 10 foot ceilings. The sytem gets louder than I would ever possibly want. It delivers convincing (to my ear) atmos sound - though to be fair I have never heard a high-end atmos setup other than in the theater.

This setup has an MSRP of $1900, but it regularly goes on sale for around $1200 (which is the price I paid).

The only obvious drawback I am aware of is the HDMI inputs are only 2.0, not 2.1. But I don’t use those anyway, so it doesn’t affect me at all. (I connect everything directly to the 2.1 inputs on my TV, then connect the soundbar to the TV with the eArc port.

Here’s a good YouTube review of the Q990b, which came out a couple of years ago. The C is the new model which is basically the same (mainly software/firmware differences).

NEW Samsung Home Theater! Dolby Atmos Soundbar - Samsung Q990B Review - YouTube

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I would start with an entry level 5.1 system on your budget and then add some atmos speakers further down the line. For the AV receiver try looking for the denon 760 or 770 both have 3 hdmi 2.1 inputs and they do 7.1 so either 5.1.2 or 7.1. For speakers at that budget will be a lot tougher. Maybe have a look at the wharfedale diamond 12.3 for your center, tower and surround speakers and an SVS 1000 for your subwoofer. Combined it might be a little higher then your budget but it’s a decent starting kit. If you want good speakers your going to have to start at 2.1 and build up as speakers have gone up in price a decent amount over the last few years unless you start looking 2nd hand and then you can get some good deals for slightly older good speakers in the price range your looking at

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@Astrakan

Yep, just slowly building it up is the most wise thing but there’s also a downside to it. Ideally I get the whole set so that I can start enjoying the full surround experience, in time before games like Starfield.

And who knows, maybe I will find a great full set, a offer I won’t be able to refuse. But there’s also this, I might have gotten ahead of myself just a little. I live in a apartment building, I got neighbours below me and on both sides and a full home cinema setup might not be ideal. Then again, this would be an issue I will always have, whether that’s a home cinema setup or soundbar with subwoofer. But I need to take into account that the sub can’t be too crazy.

The problem with adding a actual center speaker is that I don’t have space for it, I’d need to either put it under the TV, meaning I need to lift the TV up quite a bit, not ideal. So other option would be to attach a mount to the wall and have the center speaker above the TV.

@pg2g

Yeah, those are great. I love Klipsch speakers when it comes to how they look. See, this is a really nice set. And if I can find a good offer on this I just might have to scrap that idea of building a set gradually, hehe.

@Shadowgasm

You’re not wrong about center speaker. I always hear this on AV forums, not to underestimate how important the center speaker is. If I’m truly going for a home cinema setup I’m gonna have to find a way to have room for it. This is why I dig soundbars too, because you can place them under the TV, but a real center speaker often isn’t super small.

It would be no issue if I had mounted my TV to the wall but my walls are too thin, I don’t trust it. So it’s gonna be somewhat of a challenge to find a good spot for a center speaker. Subwoofer is gonna be a bit tricky to pick too, it certainly shouldn’t be overpowering, it shouldn’t be boomy. There probably are a few stores here where they have actual home cinema setups I can get a demo of. I’ll look into it.

@profjjj

A month or two ago I had the Samsung Q990b, had it for an amazing price, couldn’t resist. Sadly it turned out to be a inconsistent experience for me. Long story short the sub was way too boomy here and couldn’t get it right. I tried all the settings, put the sub in all kinds of different spots in my room but some scenes would be overly boomy where it didn’t make sense, where other scenes it would be lacking.

It really was overkill and at times it felt like my room was starting to tumble down. I can’t be having that in a apartment building. That’s why I’m not 100% sure yet if a full home cinema setup is the way to go and maybe a soundbar that produces decent enough bass without a sub might be it for me, after all. I know of at least one that might check that box.

@MJ_INC

I saw that Onkyo has good AVRs too, but Denon is better for the wallet. I’ll look into everything else you recommended me.

Maybe a full cinema setup is gonna be a future thing for me. I’ve been hoping to be able to move to a different house in the near future, ideally it’s a house where the living room is ground floor, so that would mean nobody living below me. I haven’t decided just yet. Perhaps I CAN find a subwoofer that will do me just fine and isn’t a huge bother to all my neighbours.

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I just wanted to drop in to day @Staffy you always make these great threads for discussion. Thank you!

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Or mount the TV. I know you’re concerned about the walls being too thin, but that shouldn’t be an issue as long as you mount it to a stud.

Re: full surround sound vs. soundbar and the concern about subwoofers and neighbours

To me this is why you definitely ought to opt for buying your components piecemeal instead of trying to do it all in one go. On the one hand you could spend some money on a soundbar and probably be decently happy right now. On the other, you mention hoping to move to a house in the near future, and I suspect at that point you’ll probably want a proper surround sound setup.

So my advice would be to get yourself a good receiver now, along with three* good speakers for your front stage. True, you wouldn’t have a surround experience, but you’d still have a massive sound quality upgrade and have a great starting point for a future surround system. And you wouldn’t be spending money on a soundbar you’ll only end up selling once you move to a full surround setup.

* Or two, should you opt to try having the TV as your centre.

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Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

Well, the TV weighs 30kg (42 with foot) and I don’t know, you think the wall should even be able to hold that? I’m not a handy man at all, so I would need to get someone to do this for me.

There have been some developments since I created the thread. Someone I know on YouTube who has the same TV as me said that the center speaker function that it has is actually surprisingly good. He said it will do its job fine if you don’t have space for a real center speaker at the moment. Which I definitely don’t, I am gonna need a totally different AV cabinet for that. And I have been searching today but haven’t found a really good one yet. Not one that can carry my TV, which weighs 42kg, kinda nuts. I need to find a cabinet that can handle the TV and have a opening below it for a center speaker to fit.

I’ve got some good suggestions on Reddit about a Jamo speaker set and SVS subwoofer. The Denon 760h can be found for 549 euros (actuslly 400 very briefly today) and I have done some searching and there don’t seem to be many issues regarding eARC. But I will make sure to order it from a store that doesn’t give problems if I need to return it, that way I can test it all for myself.

So yeah, gradually is better for sure. I’ll try to find a good new cabinet, in the meantime use the TVs center speaker until I can afford a good one. I’ll make sure to look for one brand speaker. I’m not gonna like the wiring through the house though. But I assume completely wireless is either too pricey or just not good?

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I have a lot more to say than I currently have time for, but I’ll say this:

Staffy, why no love for our Audio Gear OT? :yum:

Also, the 760H is stellar, I’ve had one for 2+ years now and it’s fantastic. Happy to recommend tons of more balanced, better sounding speakers too than some recommended (as a bit of an audiophile) - for the same cost range Polk often outperforms Klipsch (post Sound United acquisition, the last eight years of Polk has literally been award-winning).

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