Xbox Acquisition |OT2| Something, Something, Snowball Effect

[LoveTheGaben (Gaben)]

@Searsy82

…ng the purchases price, its effect on the price would minimal because the series is fraught with failure outside of the games. It certainly wouldn’t affect to a degree meaningful enough to deter a 2 Trillion dollar company. The pandemic is irrelevant, outside the pandemic lets be exceedingly generous and say it quadrupled its performance. Okay, so it grosses ~300 million worldwide. That isn’t a run away success and falls well short of the original adjusted for inflation. Subsequent sequels will likely fall short of that because the new movie was mediocre at best. This all ignores the reality that even if purchased, the buyer could have an agreement with WB to allow them to continue producing media based on it. Because MS assuredly has no interest in producing that kind of content itself.

Mortal Kombat has Successful animated adaptations and the new movie no matter how bad the quality was in your eyes was a success since it got a lot of viewership on HBO Max. That will make sure the studio will go for at least 500 million dollars . WB wouldn’t want an IP that they don’t have to pay licensing on to have in their own subscription service since the subscription wars is all about IP.

[LoveTheGaben (Gaben)]

@LoveTheGaben

Mortal Kombat has Successful animated adaptations and the new movie no matter how bad the quality was in your eyes was a success since it got a lot of viewership on HBO Max. That will make sure the studio will go for at least 500 million dollars . WB wouldn’t want an IP that they don’t have to pay licensing on to have in their own subscription service since the subscription wars is all about IP.

At the end of the day we won’t know until a deal is struck. But i think we can agree Searsy is that Netherealm would be the number one get from those WB studios.

[Searsy82]

@LoveTheGaben

Mortal Kombat has Successful animated adaptations and the new movie no matter how bad the quality was in your eyes was a success since it got a lot of viewership on HBO Max. That will make sure the studio will go for at least 500 million dollars . WB wouldn’t want an IP that they don’t have to pay licensing on to have in their own subscription service since the subscription wars is all about IP.

Those animated endeavors, as successful as they may be for what they are are, are literally immaterial in the scheme of a acquisition. And I assure you that they are a blip on the radar for driving HBO Max subscriptions. I could certainly agree that the first run movie being on HBO max would have made some impact in the short term, given the pandemic. However, the games sell 10+ million copies each and are ABSOLUTELY the primary driver for the IP value.

I’m not even making the argument that WB wants to sell, needs to sell, or has any reason at all to sell. If they hold onto it those films and animated series have some value. But it is irrefutable that the performance of the games outweigh those things drastically.

I completely disagree with that last part. Exclusive content drives streaming, not IP ownership, otherwise Amazon wouldn’t be producing a Fallout Series, and HBO wouldnt be producing a Last of Us series. Abject nonsense.

[pg2g]

@Stefrah

TT Games wouldn’t come with any of the IP it relies on, MS have no need of staff in particular. They want IP – both in terms of what they can dump on Game Pass day one, and going forward – or something else that fits a gap.

People always say this and I agree that known IP is a draw to the platform, but they need staff more than they need IP IMO. There is a ton of IP sitting around that is unused because there is no team to work on them (or wants to work on them). Creating new IP is an option as well.

[Stefrah]

@pg2g

People always say this and I agree that known IP is a draw to the platform, but they need staff more than they need IP IMO. There is a ton of IP sitting around that is unused because there is no team to work on them (or wants to work on them). Creating new IP is an option as well.

I love new IP, but you can invest in growing an existing studio to do this, or to reboot dormant IP.

For an acquisition to be of value, it needs to come with assets – whether it’s IP, some patented technology, a back catalogue of games that they get rights to and can drop into Game Pass.

I don’t think TT comes with any of that.

They don’t get Lego, or any of the crossover IP the Lego games are based around. The don’t get any tech. All their past games would be tied up in licencing agreements.

They just get staff. And staff aren’t indentured servants. They can quit, so aren’t really an “asset” in a deal in the long term. If they need staff, they can offer competitive wages and hire them. A lot cheaper than buying a company.

[pg2g]

@Stefrah

… I love new IP, but you can invest in growing an existing studio to do this, or to invest in rebooting dormant IP. For an acquisition to be of value, it needs to come with assets – whether it’s IP, some patented technology, a back catalogue of games that they get rights to. I don’t think TT comes with any of that. They don’t get Lego, or any of the crossover IP the Lego games are based around. The don’t get any tech. All their past games would be tied up in licencing agreements. They just get staff. And staff aren’t indentured servants. They can quit, so aren’t really an “asset” in a deal in the long term. If they need staff, they can offer competitive wages and hire them. A lot cheaper than buying a company.

It affects their value, but doesn’t make it a bad purchase. Insomniac is a recent example of a (relatively cheap) purchase that came with no IP but came with a ton of talent.

[Stefrah]

@pg2g

It affects their value, but doesn’t make it a bad purchase. Insomniac is a recent example of a (relatively cheap) purchase that came with no IP but came with a ton of talent.

Insomniac do own their own engine, and its got some very impressive tech in it as we have seen in their recent games. TT use Unreal if I remember rightly.

But yes, for the large part Sony didn’t get any IP it didn’t already have exclusive rights to. And that’s why Insomniac were (relatively) cheap as a result. Sony didn’t get much from that deal in the long term. In the short term, they got some excellent talent. But any talented individual at Insomniac – or all of them en masse – can be poached by someone else tomorrow and there’s nothing Sony can do to stop them all leaving.

I don’t see TT as an analogue for Insomniac, though. They make good games, but they are not as big a deal as Insomniac, where the talent draw was so great that the deal seemed worth it to Sony.

Now Image and Form? That makes more sense to me if they are looking for a family-friendly studio. They are already partnering on The Gunk, they come with the Steamworld IP, and would likely not be super expensive.

[PoderickPayne (Travis Norris)]

Regarding all this WB talk, wonder what’s going on with Rocksteady’s Suicide Squad game

I figured we’d have seen something on that at E3, but it’s been nothing since that initial reveal last August

[PhantomFox]

@PoderickPayne

Regarding all this WB talk, wonder what’s going on with Rocksteady’s Suicide Squad game

I figured we’d have seen something on that at E3, but it’s been nothing since that initial reveal last August

I’m wondering about all of WB’s games, really. All of em’ have been radio silent. Could be the merger messing plans up.

Also, I think this WB talk should be moved to the Community Thread or something. The thread has been a bit derailed.

[The_Xboxer (Adam)]

Rocksteady would be a good acquisition.

[AtticusFincher]

@PoderickPayne

Regarding all this WB talk, wonder what’s going on with Rocksteady’s Suicide Squad game

I figured we’d have seen something on that at E3, but it’s been nothing since that initial reveal last August

They’re doing DC Fandome again in October so we might get an update there.

[Voodoopeople]

@AtticusFincher

They’re doing DC Fandome again in October so we might get an update there.

Is the right answer. They’ve got their own comic con and want content for fans.

[AllianceOfficer]

@Stefrah

…ey are already partnering with on The Gunk makes a bit more sense. Or perhaps the entire Thunderful group that they are part of. Coatsink, another Thunderful developer, is launching into Game Pass with Replaced and has put a load of other stuff up there, and a lot of Thunderful published games make it to the service. This one kind of makes sense as they could continue to function as an Indie publisher, and do a job bringing independent games to Game Pass (or elsewhere). The complication would be that they also have a toy distribution business in the nordics, which MS would have no interest in. They are also Nintendo’s distributor in that region, which would be awkward. . But Image and Form, if they could be extracted from Thunderful, would make a lot of sense due to the existing partnership.

They have the IP, just no one to do them justice. TT games would definitely take on Banjo and Viva and probably create some new IP.

Heck they could even take Ori into the 3d.

[ThereAreFourNaan]

@Searsy82

Its more disingenuous to pretend the movie would have been a peak performer outside of the pandemic.

It doesn’t need to be a peak performer. It did very well for 2021 Box Office, exceeding initial predictions for it’s opening weekend by about 50%. So far it’s the 7th top grossing movie of the year. Even though some more will overtake it by year’s end, the later we go into the year the more the more theaters have recovered. The OG movie from 1995 was 17th highest grossing film of it’s year in the states, comparatively, so it’s positioned to be notably more successful (relative to it’s year of release) than the OG was. Globally it took 2x it’s budget, which ordinary wouldn’t be impressive, but is good for covid.

All these movies are also valuable not just for their initial sales but for their impact on their true objective, which, just like Microsoft, is a streaming service. So looking at box office and saying “oh, it doesn’t seem that impressive” (again - even though it was adjusted for conditions) is a naive way to analyze the IP’s cinematic / multimedia value to WB.

[javycane (Javier Ruiz)]

I dont know if this obsession for Banjo is nostalgia or that the games are that type of good.

Same with Viva Piñata who hasnt gotten a game since 2008.

[GoroMajima]

@javycane

I dont know if this obsession for Banjo is nostalgia or that the games are that type of good.

Same with Viva Piñata who hasnt gotten a game since 2008.

You’re comparing VP to banjo?

Banjo isn’t just nostalgia. Its a perfect opportunity for MS to have their own Mario Odyssey or Rachet if they put the effort into making a great platformer

They need more Platformers like this. Exclusive ones.

[GoroMajima]

@Bastian

I think yes, there is some nostalgia in some people, but I also think there is another reason, Banjo at the time, was the only one who could stand in front of Mario, even for many people Banjo was better than Mario at the time of Nintendo 64. So it’s normal that a lot of people want Banjo to come back and I think a good Banjo game would do the xbox and the industry in general well.

Yeah i’m one of those people. Banjo Kazooie was my first 3D platformer so i may be biased but absolutely its better than M64 and for me one of the best platformers of all time.

This franchise needs to come back and with MS buying so many studios and trying to drive gamepass and a diverse list of games…its perfect for the bear and bird to come back.

[javycane (Javier Ruiz)]

@GoroMajima

You’re comparing VP to banjo?

Banjo isn’t just nostalgia. Its a perfect opportunity for MS to have their own Mario Odyssey or Rachet if they put the effort into making a great platformer

They need more Platformers like this. Exclusive ones.

Talking in general for these defunct IP’s.

[brunopcosta1 (Bruno Costa)]

Running away a bit from studio acquisitions… what about IP acquisitions? What IPs do you guys think Xbox would benefit from buying?

The first one that pops in my head is definitely Tomb Raider. We all make fun of Sony’s third-person generic adventure games, but Xbox could really benefit from one. And I mean a game developed in-house, not a partnership deal like the one made with Rise.

Castlevania would also be nice. Give it to Ninja Theory and watch as magic happens!

[DeoGame (Farewell)]

@brunopcosta1

Running away a bit from studio acquisitions… what about IP acquisitions? What IPs do you guys think Xbox would benefit from buying?

The first one that pops in my head is definitely Tomb Raider. We all make fun of Sony’s third-person generic adventure games, but Xbox could really benefit from one. And I mean a game developed in-house, not a partnership deal like the one made with Rise.

Castlevania would also be nice. Give it to Ninja Theory and watch as magic happens!

Great idea. I think IP acquisitions are a great idea for six situations:

1. You want a major IP to bring in talent with. While MS has major IP both dormant and active, they are lacking in some fitting IP for genres like the third person adventure. Buying something like your examples help.

2. A studio really wants to work on an IP. It’s well known Arkane’s dream IP is Deus Ex. If Square wants to continue to do jack shit with it, might as well give them a shot.

3. Buying an IP comes with the publishing rights to the older titles, meaning you can bring a large collection to GP. Imagine all Tomb Raider or Castlevania games dropping into GP.

4. The next three are related. In the first instance, a studio you bought wants to revisit an old IP they sold the rights off for years ago. Examples include Ninja Theory with Enslaved and Obsidian with Alpha Protocol.

5. You want to buy a studio, but their IP is owned elsewhere and they still have aspirations for it. See IO with Hitman or Asobo with Plague Tale.

6. You have a claim to the IP but not full ownership making it messy and arguably better to solidify if you have future aspirations for it. See Gears of War.