Jez is Making a Good Point: Xbox is Complaining About Competing With Tik Tok, Social Medias and Video Content, While Doing Nothing About Adressing the Problem

Gaming
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On the Xbox Two Podcast, Jez and Rand are talking about the recent Satya Nadella’s interview where he pointed out the competition with Tik Tok and social medias, heavily used by the younger generation, and Jez actually made a good point: Xbox and Microsoft aren’t even trying to compete on this avenue anymore.

It’s pretty clear Xbox, but also Sony and Nintendo, have, throughout the years, stripped their respective platform of almost all social tools and interactivity, from making clips and putting them online to apps, groups and clubs. Nowadays, it’s so tedious and unengaging, you better be streaming or using a PC to interact, or even get your content out of these platforms and put them online. They could at least bring some interactivity back and a better social interactivity in games, like an easier solution for making clips which has been entirely scrapped…

To further his argument, he talks about how Fortnite, Roblox and somehow Minecraft, have the whole social aspect implemented inside their games. And I will add that it is maybe why the younger generation is going away from consoles and turning to the PC platform, which has all the social tools and interactivity they need.

This actually makes a lot of sense, even though there’s no easy solution to the problem, but I guess Microsoft was hoping integrating Discord would have solved all of these problems, although it didn’t really do much, as you better be using your phone anyway.

Interesting thoughts on the problem these console platforms are facing. I suggest you to listen to his whole speech, because he goes much more indepth (it begins at around 1:10:00).

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You can stream from your console, send friend requests, and send voice and text messages directly on console. :person_shrugging: Gamers in general are less sociable with strangers but you can very much easily communicate with people you already know.

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I think it’s more the social usage of the younger generation who likes interactivity and instant gratification… I get why consoles don’t want to become social platforms, but if you have to compete… You have to bring something and imitate what games or social media does, or at least facilitate it, which isn’t really the case.

Messaging app is barebone on Xbox. I think if you link a clip, it doesn’t even plays in the app… Clubs and groups haven’t been updated in years… But these apps like Tik Tok (I don’t use it and never will) or other social media platforms are so easy to use and make content for, because they know what users want to see and do on these platforms, they know how to serve them…

I think there could be a middle ground for consoles to integrate all of these social media platforms and make putting content on these platforms easier and more seemless, so people wouldn’t have to use their phones for making clips or posting a screenshot… It’s surely doesn’t help to make consoles more attractive to the new generation.

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This falls on Google and Twitter/X.

Google always hated Microsoft going back to Windows Phone days. They still do so Google never made it easy to stream to YouTube from any MS console.

Twitter/X had Musk happen. He wanted a huge bag from MS, Sony, and Nintendo to integrate to his service. That is why no one integrates anymore to there.

There is some interaction with Discord because they are in a growth phase and want to increase their valuation. I’m sure once Discord gets their bag from investors they will be dumb enough to pull a Musk by demanding money for integration.

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So make Xbox a social platform ? I mean they tried at some point, but they abandonned all their efforts. Now, the Xbox app is not too bad and improving, but why don’t we have that on console ?

And games are more social than ever, yet the platform they are on don’t allow you to even cut, make a clip and share it as a link. You have to go through hoops to get a direct link.

They also abandonned most of their investment on modernizing the achievments system, which is also some kind of social aspect that they’ve never invested in. It has been years since.

But frankly, it’s not just Xbox, it’s everyone… The PlayStation store got user reviews like a month ago. Nintendo is so bad in that regard.

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When Nadella says social media is their competitor, I don’t think they are intending to compete as a social media box. I believe he simply means that social media competes for people’s time. The reason Sony and MS have somewhat dropped the social media aspects is because people probably aren’t buying a console for that. Content creators are using a PC because they need legit media tools where they are essentially doing studio productions. The “gaming” aspect is just content no different than random Tik Tok trends, whatever sells. The social media consumers also don’t necessarily care to interact with the gaming, they are just watching a show, so need need for a console either. You can watch streamers on your phone.

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think it really does feel like an annoying aspect of this reporting is being an outsider looking in without understanding why certain things are the way they are. You’re gonna get video content through just YouTube and stuff, and that’s probably it, cause they’re not gonna make their own video platform. We’ve seen that million times before. Nobody wants to transition, so that’s not gonna happen. Google hates Microsoft or competes with them directly; they’re not gonna make it easy for them. Second of all they tried streaming let’s be honest mixers has had issues but a lot of the time I saw people just shitting on the platform, complaining about it then actually give a criticism and when they canceled it in Twitch got worse then all of a sudden we saw post saying it should come back now second of all when it comes to social media they’re not going back to Twitter Elon Musk with that shirt and it’s not just Microsoft dealing with that there is no easy solution, but they say they’re not trying to do anything is stupid to me because nothing really you can’t currently do unless you make your own platform but even then you’re gonna be pushed back hard

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My assumption was that the “competing with tik Tom” comment spoke more about competing in the attention economy. Xbox represents a form of entertainment the same as Tik Tok and YouTube and Netflix, but Xbox lags much, much further behind in reaching the public and getting engagement. It’s an issue faced by consoles in general and I think the problem is the hardware barrier. Kids these days aren’t going to ask their parents to buy them a console, they’re going to download tik Tok, other social media apps, and mobile games on the smartphones they already own.

I don’t think Microsoft is failing to attract new audiences because they lack these robust social features, I think they axed the robust social features because they weren’t proving to widen the appeal of console gaming not were even the core gamers using them. Xbox tried more than most with Mixer. It’s most cost effective and realistic for them to let those platforms which specialize in social communication be used for that purpose.

Or to focus on the experience within games themselves, because new gamers aren’t tied to a single platform. Kids aren’t hooked on Xbox, they’re hooked on Fortnite and Minecraft. And Xbox is trying to build out those social experiences across platforms and how the ecosystem overall interacts beyond just the console.

Ultimately though, I don’t think they even can really compete until Google and Apple are forced to open up mobile. The failure of the windows phone was Microsoft leaving that entire landscape up to the control of Apple and Google, and for whatever reason governments aren’t doing enough to force them open. I think Satya is referring to Xbox becoming as easy to access as Tik Tok, Netflix, and everything else and for that strategy to make it so that Xbox can compete better in the attention economy. If Tik Tok was an exclusive experience tied to the tik tok digital camera for $300, I don’t think it would have taken off like it did. I mean for that matter the same goes for Fortnite and Genshin and Minecraft. Those games have exploded because they were able to reach gamers everywhere. I think Microsoft wants to do that with Xbox as a platform and through that compete better against other forms of entertainment not tied down to a single piece of hardware. Xbox everywhere is probably the holy grail for them. They want more active users and the console hardware barrier is proving to actively be preventing that. If they can really figure out standalone cloud, make Xbox the default PC gaming experience, push Xbox Play Anywhere and cross progression tied to Xbox accounts, and everything else then they’ll start to achieve this and naturally compete more with the entertainment platforms that are already “everywhere” and as accessible as possible. Maybe kids will one day choose to open the Xbox app on their phone and stream Ninja Gaiden 4 instead or play a native Xbox mobile version of Vampire Survivors instead of opening Tik Tom and scrolling for hours. Though Microsoft will need to improve their recommendations and discovery if they want to achieve this future.

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I think Jez is a good reporter, but his analysis is so off based most of the time. How many “gamers” complained why xbox tried to integrate facebook and twitter back in the day? MS trying to compete with things like tik tok by being everywhere just like tik tok.

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Nadella is talking about time not functionality.

And to Jez point interactive social media like Twitch, Facebook, Tiktok, Instagram or Twitter will never be relevant on console when typing is just a horrible experience with a gamepad. Everyone has a phone and grows up with a phone so default is that and will be in the future :woman_shrugging:

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Jez is well meaning but totally misunderstood the comment. It is directly competing for the platform share but the time share.

I liken it to buses competing with trains. Youre competing for the travel between two destinations, but you can’t say two trains are competing. You can’t force a bus to act like train, to compete. The decision is different. Folk who want to watch Tiktok and be served endless videos aren’t going to instead play a game anymore than watch a movie.

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I kind of think features like Quick Resume are geared towards the short form video audience. Also, Satya talked about being innovative with new interactive forms in gaming.

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I think a lot of you are missing the point. It’s more about the vision of the console being this monolithic thing, which can do one thing and only one thing that is now obsolete. That was fine 10 years ago, but these consoles should have evolved with the technologies and consumers demand.

There was a point where Xbox was innovating and testing new interactive stuff complementing gaming, like 1v100, that we never got back. We know they were working on an achievments system revamp that got scrapped. The app to cut clips also got… cut because no one used it, but it should have been worked on and improved for years to get to a point it is easy and fast to use (Jez said it could have used an Xbox watermark on each video like Tik Tok).

All we’ve got throughout the years is the Xbox app on PC, which is getting good, but the improvements are only seen on PC. There’s not much coming down to the Xbox console ecosystem.

It is the lack of investment, improvements and innovation that pushes people towards either their phone or a PC. The new generation is moving away from consoles because it is seen as a closed environment, contrary to their phone and a PC, both of which can do much much more.

So I think what Jez suggested is that, Xbox should have seen that trend and invested much more in the console ecosystem to be more open, more interactive and attractive.

People pushed back against ads on the home screen, but more than once, it helped me find games that I could not have found otherwise. I’m also, always looking for updates and events, which are not always visible. We are in the era of algorithms, where everything should be coming to you, not the other way around… (and I know, I don’t like things being forced fed, but that’s the time we are living in)

Even groups and clubs are so 2015, let’s be honest. Myself, I don’t care much, I’m used to it, but it isn’t attractive at all, it’s like we’re stuck in the old era of gaming and the new generation can see that.

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I’m my experience I have gravitated toward games where you can play a quick game. After a hard day at work somtimes I just want to watch a couple YouTube vids and call it a night. Too tired to fire up some big single player game. But with games like like VS, DRGS, Forza horizon, even cod, I will turn to those for a couple quick games instead of vegging with YouTube. So these types of games can more easily compete with social media.

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Edit: I wrote it all, so I’ll leave it. But after writing it I realized it’s unwarranted (that length). All I want to say is that the problem is the existing industry (gaming media and vocal gamers) pushing against the idea of a gaming console being for anyone other than themselves playing their favorite games. The marketing is always in conflict with itself because Xbox is struggling (trying) to reach new audiences while also having to please angry gamers who actively WANT them stuck in the early 2000s.

Everything else: a long rant about how the failure of the Xbox One locked the console market in for death and made Xbox drop the ball with positioning for the Series S

I think consoles are just in a difficult position with that stuff: so, we all know the effect of the Xbox One failure on Xbox, but no one really ever talks about the effect on the industry. Microsoft had a strategy to make the game console - The Xbox - the center of home entertainment, and they failed. They didn’t just fail they bombed. And in the subsequent fallout Sony went hard marketing the PS4 as a traditional game console. The rhetoric became that no one wanted an “all in one” game device and just wanted to play games. But in reality we just locked in the death of consoles. It became a joke to use your console for anything but gaming and those non gaming features started going away as no one used them. It’s true that Microsoft should have done more to keep pushing Xbox consoles to non-gamers are all around entertainment devices, but the industry itself (especially gaming media) was leaning in the opposite direction and pushing against that.

This generation saw Xbox pivot to the same side and center everything around a traditional gaming experience, and even now that’s what gaming media and gamers idolize. No one gives a hoot that Microsoft joined Sony in killing off movies & TV, but they’re continously mad about the Xbox everywhere and PC convergence strategies. It feels like the Xbox One failure and PS4 success really pushed gamers into the stubborn mindset that a console can only be a gaming toy (whether they admit it or not) and they doubled down more and more on the obstacles that keep consoles from growing with New audiences and piercing the zeitgeist.

I do really think the Series consoles should’ve kept those “center of your home entertainment” features of the Xbox One and just evolved on the experience in general while staying at a competitive price with the PS4. I especially think that the Series S should’ve more aggressively targeted casual audiences like people who buy 4k Apple TVs. This would’ve been a really good push during those blackfriday deals when the Series S dropped to $200: they could’ve made direct comparisons to the premium streaming boxes focused on how an Xbox had all the major streaming apps, movies & TV, AND could play all the latest games. Stuff like that. But Xbox themselves were afraid to mention “TV” around the Xbox. The documentary was really revealing. They went along with the industry and made fun of themselves for talking about “TV” and not games with the Xbox One. But THAT WASN’T A BAD IDEA. It’s so frustrating. The problem was entirely the execution (like where they made these declarations), but consoles did and still do NEED to market to non-gamer audiences. Gaming is a form of entertainment and a console exists to facilitate gaming (make it more accessible than a PC), but to keep growing they also need to convince non-gamers to pick up a console. It makes sense to do this by including more entertainment experiences, using those to pull in new consumers, and then transforming those new consumers into gamers.

In theory the PC Xbox could solve this and Xbox everywhere as an experience would also help, but the biggest hurdle is that the wider gaming media and vocal gamers online reject the idea that consoles can or should be more than just gaming devices. It’s hard to build those features to attract new users when your existing users get mad at the platform for daring to evolve.

We are 100% stuck in the old era of gaming. Consoles are really stuck in the 90s it feels like. It’s really insulting with how much they’re pushing for digital (even Nintendo now), but we can’t get features basic on any other platform (like cross progression). But it’s hard to move on when the entire market has strapped itself to that Titanic and gamers get mad at them for trying to free themselves. Like who likes exclusives? What reasonable modern person is going, “Hi, I would like to purchase your plastic box for the privelege of purchasing this exclusive game.” Elsewhere people are getting mad over the streaming originals and how many streaming services they need to sign up for. And it’s not like Netflix is selling a NetBox that costs $400 just to be able to pay for all those originals. But to gaming media and the vocal gamers exclusives are the lifeblood of a console. I wish they’d hear how bad that sounds. If there’s no point to a console without any exclusives, then how are they supposed to grow? Why do they exist? Why would a non gamer want to buy one? Especially when all the biggest games are third party and multiplatform. “Whats the point of an Xbox?” if that’s honestly the question people are asking just after some games go multiplatform, then what’s the point of any console? If 20 years later the ONLY selling point we’ve let consoles have is exclusives then it isn’t a wonder why they’ve failed to grow and reach new and non gamers.

The hide button is useful for clutter I see.

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The super massive elephant in the room here is diminishing returns. We’re playing the same games as 15 years ago. I booted up Dead Space 2 via backwards compatibility on my Series X last night with fps boost. And guess what? In terms of gameplay and level design this industry has gone nowhere since. I won’t even mention graphics here (the game’s artstyle shines even at its lower res versus modern releases).

The point is when a console released back in the day it featured a massive noticeable visual upgrade. When big games released we could always see that huge leap. But now? I think people are underestimating just how mundane almost every major AAA looks these days with that inescapable “been there, played that game before” feeling. It matters.

I’d say Xbox is actually competing with its former self in terms of public perception and the current state of affairs is nowhere near as exciting as things used to be. There’s no forward momentum in this industry anymore.

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As others have stated, it’s time. Social media like TikTok, Twitter, Facebook, etc. fills a gap in time that few other forms of media can.

The reality is, if you have 5 mins to kill, you are more likely to pull out your phone and scroll social media, then to play a video game, watch a movie/show, or read a book. There are of course exceptions like Candy Crush, but gaming in general is both a time and attention commitment. Adding social media features to the console isn’t going to change that.

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I feel like many recent games like ball x pit are pretty much just taking some of the recent mobile games idea like last war and all the fake ones advertised and running with it. I get so many fake mobile games ad that never play like advertised difference is the ideas on consoles are fully realized.

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People talk about having to make subscription streaming games, but they already have them with the indie games like Ball X Pit, Vampire survivors, Monster train, and the likes. Those + touch controls could really sell cloud gaming. Xbox is just struggling to get that information across to the zeitgeist that doesn’t want to step out of default stores and still see console gaming as something for kids and man children. This types of games could have also really sold an Xbox mobile games store with Xbox Play Anywhere & achievements. Like we know Vampire Survivors can play well on mobile and now it has cross progression which is great, but games like that with just seamless Xbox Play Anywhere features could really win over casual mobile gamer audiences.